Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast

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Matt Regusci: Oh my gosh. I hope I never get Listeriosis.

Francine L Shaw: Well, I think that that's a pretty common for people in our industry anyway. I think that's a pretty common thought.

Matt Regusci: Like I.

Francine L Shaw: Which foodborner illness I do not want? That would be it.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Like I know I've consumed listeria, but I'm positive I am. 'cause listeria is like ubiquitous. It's everywhere, right? It's in the soil. I'm pro pretty sure probably I've gotten e coli and salmonella probably.

Francine L Shaw: You know, at some time every child has licked the bottom of their shoe.

Matt Regusci: But for that bug, listeria to turn into Listeriosis, oh my gosh. That to me sounds like the worst death. It's food safety torture.

Getting listeriosis is like torture when you're watching a crime scene, investigation show or whatever, some sort of crazy thing like that, and you're seeing somebody torture their victim. That is what Listeriosis is to every [00:01:00] single one of their victims. When you read what these poor people go through, it is literally torture.

Like I cannot think of any other way of describing this than torturing a human being to death or almost to death. And if they survive it, they have long-term consequences for the rest of their life.

intro: Everybody's gotta eat and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans, Francine l Shaw and Matt Ucci for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule. Don't eat poop. Don't eat poop.

Matt Regusci: Hello? Hello, Francine.

Francine L Shaw: Hey, Matt.

Matt Regusci: This has been a day.

Francine L Shaw: It has been a very big day.

Matt Regusci: It has...

Francine L Shaw: been a, it's been a big [00:02:00] couple days.

Matt Regusci: Yes. Big couple days. Oh my gosh.

Having a podcast and not being able to tell people what is going on with all of these exciting things are two dangerous things, Francine.

Francine L Shaw: I know and we both are. We get excited about stuff. We get very excited about things and we like want to share things. And the other thing is we live on a roller coaster of life. The freaking peaks and valleys are real. It is insane. Would you agree?

Matt Regusci: No. Yes, I totally agree.

Francine L Shaw: You pick the craziest rollercoaster that's out there and that is a replication of our lives on any given day, not week, not month, but day.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. And when we do things, we're like, okay, what are we gonna give up to do this next [00:03:00] thing? And when we started the podcast, I gave up alcohol, which was probably a very healthy thing to do, but like the way my. My wife and I are insane. Absolutely insane. And right now we have three babies in the house.

We have three babies, all three of them with special needs. And I'm like, okay, Tracy. I think three is the max.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah, I, that part, I don't know how you guys, I have all the respect in the world. I don't know. I don't know how you do it. It takes special people to, because that's just. Even more that I could, I just, yeah.

My mental capacity right now is at max.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: It is maxed.

Matt Regusci: And like one of them is on a feeding tube, two of them are on oxygen. They all have like tons of different medicines that they need to take. And I am not a nurse. My wife is the nurse. I [00:04:00] am not a nurse, so my wife is like putting everything down, like all the schedules because I gotta help her out with all this stuff.

And I'm like, detrimentally afraid that I'm gonna forget something and kill one of these kids. And we've been doing it for a decade, so no, 13 years. Yeah. Two of my forever kiddos are 13 years old, and we met them in the NICU when we were fostering and then adopting them, and they were born at 25 weeks and a day.

They were like, I've eaten meals bigger than these babies came out. I'm like, oh my gosh, they're so tiny. I'm gonna kill one. Yeah, it's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

Francine L Shaw: So I wish.

Like this job, anything that has to do with food safety, my husband will help me where he can with the things that he can do, which is he really doesn't know what I do.

Nobody in my family really knows what I do for this piece of my job other than listening to the podcast. They don't have a clue. They just don't know what I do. I don't know. I don't think they really care [00:05:00] what I do, quite frankly. We have another business that is totally unrelated to this, which he does the physical labor.

He does all the physical labor. He also has a full-time job, but he does all the physical labor for that. I do all of the paperwork and it's a construction. It's construction business. I do all of the paperwork and I do, if we need to pick things out for the aesthetically, I do all of that and I manage the people side of it.

So in addition to everything that you and I do and my own company, I take care of all of that. So right now we have a fairly big project going on, like it's big. So I've got that plus everything that we're working on and it's just, it is like all exploding at the same time, which is a lot.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: So.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

People will ask Francine and I like, how do you do all this in a day? And we're [00:06:00] like, well, it didn't start off like that, like it did. It's not like we woke up and each of us had our own businesses and multiple children and all of this stuff. Like overnight. If that happened, I would need to be on anxiety meds and these different types, the top.

But yeah, we just keep adding on. 'cause we have two big projects that. One project we've been working on for a couple years that's coming out and we've been talking about it like Food Safety Family. So she and I have had a company now for quite some time that just like our podcast we paid for, but there was still revenue coming into it and that's about to change.

And then we're working on another big project with the organization everybody knows and gosh, that one's gonna be so much fun. That's gonna be.

Francine L Shaw: Right. And I'm to the point where. Something's going away. That's where I am. So.

Matt Regusci: Yes.

Francine L Shaw: But here we are.

Matt Regusci: I will have to tell my wife, maybe we slow down on the [00:07:00] foster care thing.

I don't think we'll ever stop, but slow down. Maybe not take three babies at one time. That are all special needs.

Francine L Shaw: I'm seeing signs that something has to go away.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. 100%. There's only 24 hours of the day and we do need to sleep. We do need to eat, and we occasionally need a weekend.

Francine L Shaw: And I've got grandchildren and I've got children, and you're a bit younger than I am.

I need, something's gotta go. So, yeah.

Matt Regusci: But it's not this.

Francine L Shaw: No.

Matt Regusci: It's not this.

Francine L Shaw: 100% not the things that I need and enjoy, that I enjoy. I'm good.

Matt Regusci: This is so much fun and we're like over 140 episodes been going on for almost three years. We're being coming on a three year mark pretty soon. And I think we like each other more than we even started, which it's crazy 'cause the more people work together, the more they either like each other or the less they like each other.

Luckily it's the [00:08:00] more.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah.

Matt Regusci: Side of it.

Francine L Shaw: We can go away for a couple days and not kill each other.

Matt Regusci: Okay.

But that is not what we are talking about today. We have, uh, we have to talk about another listeria outbreak, Francine.

Francine L Shaw: We do. So the outbreak that we're gonna talk about, I was looking for, and as I'm scrolling, it's like listeria, listeria, listeria, listeria.

And it did not used to be that way.

Matt Regusci: I know, I know. Like on Food Safety News, we were talking to Bill Marler at the Food Safety Consortium and we were like, yeah. Food Safety News and Marler Blog needs to be around. As long as Francine and I have a podcast, we really need you to stay. So like it needs to exist for the next couple decades 'cause I see Francine and I doing this until one of us dies.

But I think 90% of our content comes from Food Safety News or Marler Blog is what we told them. But you're exactly right, Francine. We [00:09:00] go onto Food Safety News and it's like listeria, listeria, listeria, listeria, listeria. And we talk about this all the time.

When we first started in our careers, listeria was there, but it was like an indicator report for sanitization. It was not something that people were afraid of, like getting sick and dying over like this listeriosis. It's bad. And this one that we're talking about today is in pasta, which, Francine, in my bingo card of listeria outbreaks and death. I did not have pasta as one of those.

Francine L Shaw: No, no. I would never associate the two. I just wouldn't.

Matt Regusci: No. Okay, so this is a big outbreak.

So like on Food Safety News as of today, Coral the lead editor of Food Safety News, Coral. I think Coral has been there since the [00:10:00] beginning of Food Safety News.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah, she's been there for a long time.

Matt Regusci: Yeah, she's been there. I think when I first started reading Food Safety News, like when it first came out 16 years ago, I think I was reading articles from her like 16 years ago. Anyways, yeah, so she was writing this and as of today there's a total of 27 people infected with the outbreak, strain of listeria, and yeah, this is not good.

Francine L Shaw: It's 27 people in 18 states.

Matt Regusci: 27 people in 18 states, and six people have died and one infection in a pregnant woman resulted in a fetal loss. So for me, that's seven people that died. Right, regardless of your beliefs in abortion or whatever, if the woman wants that baby and that baby dies, it is a total and complete death.

Yeah, that is absolutely sad. And this is the crazy thing about [00:11:00] Listeriosis, right? Because when we see e coli or salmonella like 125 people sick they know of, and one person maybe died or something like that. Or even lower statistics than that. Like people need to have liver transplants or kidney transplants or be on dialysis or that type of stuff with these different outbreaks but you don't see like huge amounts of deaths.

With listeria every single time there's a listeria outbreak like this. Francine, we talk about how deadly Listeriosis is 27 people sick and. Six people plus a little tiny baby fetus died. So seven people died.

Francine L Shaw: Well, and the incubation period for this is so long. It's like up to 70 days.

Matt Regusci: It could be a long time that you like have listeria just chilling in your system before it gets to listeriosis.

Francine L Shaw: So hepatitis A is a long time, is like 15 to 50 days, most of them. It doesn't take that long. Usually, I think the average is somewhere around 30 days, 28, 30 days, which is a long time. [00:12:00] 70? like what'd you eat 70 days ago?

Matt Regusci: Oh shoot. I don't even know. I don't even know what I ate yesterday. Like this. These epidemiology reports were people like trying to figure things out is, yeah, what did you eat 70 days ago? And you're like, what? That was what, more than two months ago? What?

Okay, so just to give like the statistics on this, with 27 people sick, 7 people died. That's a death rate of 26%. That's huge. That is not good. Yeah, that is not good at all.

So to give more context of this, it was it's pasta made by Nate's Fine Foods. They actually posted on September 29th, 2025, they voluntarily recalled their pasta because of this outbreak, but it's affected a lot of people.[00:13:00]

People forget like how crazy complex our supply chain is. So this pasta recall products as of October 30th, are Sprouts Farmers Market Smoked Mozzarella Pasta Salad, ~produced on the dates of 10/10/25 to 10 29, 25. Wait. I just caught this, so Nate's Fine Foods talks about how they recalled their product starting September 29th, 2025.~

~Then they're recalling product after that that was produced. Oh, no~ product used by dates ~sorry,~ of 10, 10 25. ~Okay, that makes more sense.~ Giant Eagle smoked mozzarella pasta salad, expires date september 30th, 2025 through October 7th, 2025. Kroger stores recalled deli bowtie and penne pasta salads sold on October 26th through October 2nd, 2025.

Scott & Jon’s Shrimp Scampi with Linguini Bowls used by dates like way into the future. March 12th, 2027. March 13th, 2027. March 17th, 2027, March 21st, 2027. Trader Joe’s Cajun Style Blackened Chicken Breast Fettucine [00:14:00] Alfredo. There's like a whole bunch of best used dates by that.

Albertsons stores recalled store made deli pasta salads. So they must have wholesale type of pasta that they sell to grocery stores or in delis that use it. So. Yeah, sell through dates September 8th, 2025 through October 4th, 2025. Marketside Linguine with Meatballs & Marinara Sauce, whole bunch of dates on that from September through October. Marketside Grilled Chicken Alfredo with Fettuccine best used by June 6th, 2025 or prior.

Oh my land. So this has been going on in their facility for a while here. Home Chef Chicken Fettuccine Alfredo. Best used by June 19th, 2025. So check your freezer guys, because if this is in your freezer, then [00:15:00] throw this out. Like if you bought this earlier in the year and you froze it and it's still in there.

'cause I know I do that, I have things in my freezer for like six months to a year sometimes. You know, like it's just sitting there waiting for the next meal. Yeah, make sure you're throwing this out.

Francine L Shaw: And you know that there are people that have these things in the refrigerator or freezer that are never gonna hear about this recall. They're just gonna be completely unaware that the recall even exists.

So Bill was telling us when we were at the Consortium, that he got an email from somebody that got listeria and they thought that it was from a particular item. It wasn't. It turned out that it was from Boar's Head and he, they're like, no, it couldn't have been.

And he's like, oh, yes it was. And people just sometimes have no idea because nobody [00:16:00] reaches out to say to them, their health department or anybody else that, Hey, look, you're part of this outbreak.

Matt Regusci: Yep.

Francine L Shaw: So, you know, it could be six months, a year from now when somebody gets sick because it happened to be in their freezer, they pulled it out, ate it, and then have no idea where they ended up with listeria.

Matt Regusci: Yep. And the interesting thing about that was done by a, a test that was done at the hospital. Part of he, he was sick, he got listeriosis and he's still not 100% because he got listeriosis. And if you get listeriosis.

Man, the odds are 25 to 30% that you're gonna die, and the odds are 100% that it's going to affect you for a long time. And so he was so affected.

Francine L Shaw: Up to 20% of clinical listeria cases are fatal, especially in people with weakened immune systems.

Matt Regusci: Yep.

Francine L Shaw: That's huge. [00:17:00]

Matt Regusci: That's on average, but we've seen it as high as 30%. This one is 26%, so it's, yeah, it's not good.

And then so he got sick, he got tested at the hospital. They knew the genetic strain of that listeriosis and no one told him that he, it was part of the Boars Head thing. So like that's crazy to me. I mean, this is pre government shutdown. We have got to get better as a nation in tracking these things and linking them to the appropriate outbreaks so these victims can actually get what they need.

Francine L Shaw: Because like at some point you're gonna max out your insurance. It should be called like withholding information or something. You know what I mean? When they don't explain to these people, Hey, this is where it came from, because they've got the information, they're just not sharing it in a lot of cases.

Matt Regusci: Again, so this is 27. To put that [00:18:00] into perspective, this is 27 people sickened by this pasta outbreak that we know of.

Francine L Shaw: Probably more. And there it's, the number's gonna continue to grow.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Yeah. And if it was some elderly person at a home, they might have just been like, oh yeah, it was natural causes. Or how many other.

Francine L Shaw: I'm nodding my head at that.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Or how many other poor pregnant women, they may not have shown any symptoms but it aborted their baby. Killed their baby.

Francine L Shaw: Well.

Matt Regusci: And thought it was a miscarriage.

Francine L Shaw: There's like a spontaneous abortion of the fetus. It could have. Right. Miscarriage and they may never know.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Listeria is a big deal and the only way to fix listeria is having a food safety culture that allows you to test for this and really find and destroy this bug. This is the enemy and every single facility in the world needs to view [00:19:00] listeria as the number one enemy. Then all the other risks that you have, cut lettuce with e coli and tomatoes with salmonella, all of that.

Is also obviously a risk-based type of, uh, testing that you need to do to make sure your product is fine. But listeria could be in any facility linking around, waiting to get onto zone one. With zone one is like a belt at which the food is touching, right? And people are afraid to test zone one for this type of stuff, and it's there.

Francine L Shaw: So remember that company, we talked to it to Food Safety Consortium?

Matt Regusci: Yeah. I can't wait for that interview to come out.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah, that is very cool.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Yeah.

Being able to do basically like a PCR type of test and see if you have listeria like an ATP type of a test for listeria.

Francine L Shaw: Internally.

Matt Regusci: Internally. Yes. To me people are afraid of, of getting out that they have listeria in their facility.

I just assume [00:20:00] everybody has listeria in their facility. So, so it's more like find it and kill the MOFO so you don't kill people.

Francine L Shaw: Because once you start killing people, that's a problem.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Yeah. Say goodbye to your brand. Say hello to Bill Marler. It's not good.

Francine L Shaw: The brand integrity is gone. Bill Marler is in and your business is gone.

Matt Regusci: All the food safety people out there that are, that have not tested for listeria or are not doing it on a regular basis, but you gotta ramp that stuff up, just assume it's in there and your job is to find it and look everywhere. And if it's in your drains, assume it got into your drains from someplace else. And where is that?

Because you do not want to be a headline at which Francine and I are discussing on our Don't Eat Poop! [00:21:00] naming all of the products that got people sick and or died.

Francine L Shaw: They're being recalled and where they're being recalled from. Yeah. No, that's, it's not a good place to be.

Matt Regusci: No.

Francine L Shaw: Where the people picked up their poop.

Matt Regusci: Oh my gosh. I hope I never get listeriosis.

Francine L Shaw: Well, I think that that's a pretty common for people in our industry anyway. I think that's a pretty common thought.

Matt Regusci: Like.

Francine L Shaw: Which foodborne illness I do not want? that would be it.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Like I know I've consumed listeria, but I'm positive I am. 'cause listeria is like ubiquitous.

It's everywhere, right? It's in the soil. I'm pr, pretty sure probably I've gotten e coli and salmonella probably.

Francine L Shaw: But you know, at some time every child is licked the bottom of their shoe.

Matt Regusci: But for that bug, listeria to turn into Listeriosis, oh my gosh.

That to me sounds like the worst death. It's food [00:22:00] safety torture, getting listeriosis is like torture. When you're watching a crime scene investigation show or whatever, some sort of crazy thing like that, and you're seeing somebody torture their victim, that is what Listeriosis is to every single one of their victims. When you read what these poor people go through, it is literally torture. Like I cannot think of any other way of describing this than torturing a human being to death or almost to death.

And if they survive it, they have long-term consequences for the rest of their life. And not only that, but whatever mentally goes on in their head, whatever their family goes through it. People, I, I've never heard a victim talk about this. I wonder if they suffer from the same type of stuff as like PTSD. I wonder if, yeah, if it's like diag, if they could get a diagnosis PTSD. 'cause it's. [00:23:00] My gosh.

Francine L Shaw: So, well, I wanna say two things, but first I had a person in a corporate class I was teaching who actually lost their baby. They'd eaten at a restaurant and they lost their baby,

Matt Regusci: uh.

Francine L Shaw: From Listeria. That just ruined her from eating out, period. Yeah. And that would be a form of PTSD from just the ramifications of just like eating out what she ate and she was talking about this during the class.

Of course, you don't ask people to, I mean, I would say, has anybody ever had a foodborne illness? She certainly did not have to share the things that she shared from that experience. 'cause God bless her, she started crying and it was, it's bad.

The other thing that I wanted to say is there are other foodborne illnesses that have long-term effects as well.

E coli is another one with the hemolytic uremic syndrome. And the long-term effects from that. And that's another [00:24:00] one that it gets just downright ugly. So yeah.

Matt Regusci: Getting that though in, in with e coli is like losing, I was gonna say winning the lottery, but it's not winning at all. Losing the lottery, right?

Because people get e coli, salmonella and you get the symptoms and you get sick, but, but like actually losing a kidney or dying from it is very minute. It's absolutely. Can you imagine? You're like, wait, there was hundreds of other people that got E coli from the same outbreak and I lost a kidney. What? Why me?

Francine L Shaw: Well, it's always the high risk populations. Yes. Almost always the high risk populations that get, not always because you're thinking about.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. 'cause you're thinking about, we're thinking about the Emmy Award-winning.

Francine L Shaw: As poisoned and that girl that was very healthy ended up with e coli. But a lot of times it is the people with in high risk populations, you know, [00:25:00] young children, older people with illnesses, and you may not even know that you have the illness that gets sick. But again, not always.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. For me, it's the babies that hit the hardest and it's, I just because I love babies so much of my 12 forever kids, every one of them, but four I had as a baby. My wife and I have done foster care for, I don't know, 20 babies, and then I worked in the nursery at my church for, I don't know, 20 years.

I love babies, absolutely love babies, help raise my younger brothers and sisters. And so when I hear like a baby dying of, or like a little child dying, it's like the. It's like you're killing off the weakest, most vulnerable population. And I feel the same way about the elderly too. That, [00:26:00] well, they're in an old folks home or whatever, and we're supposed to be taking care of these people and they're the older people.

They're gonna die of natural causes, but they shouldn't die by eating food or drinking a protein shake or something like that. That shouldn't happen in America. I'm sorry.

Francine L Shaw: Well, no, I'm so empathetic. I don't always come across that way. I am so empathetic that it doesn't matter who the victim per se is, I can always put myself in the position of that victim's family.

Matt Regusci: Yes.

Francine L Shaw: So it doesn't really matter who the person is that gets it. I can always. Put myself in the position of their family and how much how they must feel.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: And yeah.

Matt Regusci: You know what, like when we read the story of the woman whose husband survived Listeriosis, they ran their family business together, but he was the main [00:27:00] person running the business and how they had a teenage son and now his wife has to take care of him because he's in a home and he's, he can't speak and take care of the business and take care of their teenage son, who is really not growing up with a father, even though he's still alive. That one hit me because I was like, oh my gosh, this would be my wife's story if I passed, or e. Hate to say this, but even worse if I didn't.

Like if I'm one more person that she has to take care of for the rest of my life and I have really no ability to contribute when my whole entire life I have done nothing but try to contribute. That hit me because it was coming from the wife, but I was putting it in my own wife's shoes, and I'm trying not to cry right now just talking about it.

It's, [00:28:00] yeah, these victims are real.

Francine L Shaw: They're very real. They're very real, and their situations are real. It is always preventable. We're never gonna stop all of the foodborne illnesses. That's impossible. But they can certainly be minimized, and that's what's so frustrating is none of them have to happen, but they're all preventable. Nobody should ever die from eating food, especially in a country with the resources and the capabilities that we have.

I read something, I think it was either yesterday or today that said they're actually increasing.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: And that's a shame.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: For God's sake. Bill's hiring another attorney.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Watch out guys. Bill's hiring another attorney. Bill Marler, by the way.

Francine L Shaw: And I think another epidem, was it epidemiologist?

Matt Regusci: And another epidemiologist? Yeah. 'cause he can't use the governments data [00:29:00] because it's so jacked. So he has to go hire his own epidemiologist. Uh, I think he has like a staff of epidemiologists. He probably has more epidemiologists on staff than the FDA and the CDC too. It's crazy.

Francine L Shaw: So at this point, he as a business needs more resources because they're just, just aren't enough.

Matt Regusci: You are not a crier Francine. I think I have cried more and I can name like a handful of times on our show that like, I'm literally tearing up. I don't like that Francine. I did not start this show thinking that I was gonna tear up over this.

This is, but you know what? It's the stories of the victims. It's the stories of the victims that do it for me because it's so, I I.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah. I'll if I'm very angry, frustration and like our podcast tends to.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. And yeah, Francine's always like, no, you have to read these letters, because I can't read them. And I'm like reading them, trying to keep it together.

And Francine's on [00:30:00] the other side, tears rolling down her face. She's, oh, Francine, you're not helping me.

Francine L Shaw: The empathy factor is just real. 'cause it's my God, I start to feel like I'm that other person.

Matt Regusci: These poor people, 20... 27 sick.

Francine L Shaw: And we should have researched this, but not many freaking people have died from Listeria this year?

How many people have died and how many people have gotten sick this year? just from Listeria. Is that one of the illnesses we've stopped tracking and I don't even want. I just don't get me started.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. We have to do an episode on, it's just I.

Francine L Shaw: Just because we stop tracking, doesn't mean that the, the number of foodborne illnesses have reduced. We just stopped counting them.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Food safety gets solved when we stop counting.

Francine L Shaw: We ignore it so it goes away.

Matt Regusci: Number decrease significantly over the last year. Oh yeah. Compared to what statistics? Oh, [00:31:00] we stopped taking the statistics. Okay. Well, Bill Marler didn't, so that there's that.

Francine L Shaw: We need a hashtag team Bill Marler.

Matt Regusci: Well, no.

Francine L Shaw: When did, did that happen? It's.

Matt Regusci: We like at Food Safety Consortium. I told Bill, I was like. I don't know, 20 years I've used you as the boogieman. No, you should probably do food safety. You should probably get a food safety audit. You should probably put together a food safety program because Bill's there waiting, not waiting.

And he's there when the victims call and yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah.

Matt Regusci: So an estimated, this is on the USDA's website. Okay. An estimated 1600 people get sick from Listeriosis each year and about 260 die.

Francine L Shaw: Okay. So that was updated when?

Matt Regusci: I don't know, probably when the USDA created this website 30 years ago. I don't know.

Francine L Shaw: Okay.

So yeah, I, I wanna maybe when I get a chance, I'll look and see if I can figure out how many people actually died this year.

Matt Regusci: [00:32:00] On that note, we have research to do to find that number. 'cause that's a really good, that was a really good question, Francine. How many people have. It's funny, I've used the exact same FDA's statistic or CDC's statistic, excuse me, about how many people get sick and die every single year since I started my career, like 20 years. 20 years ago. That number has not changed, and there is no way that number has not changed in like 15, 20 years. So I just don't think they really update and track it. They may track it, but they definitely don't update that number.

Francine L Shaw: It's gonna change this year.

Matt Regusci: Why?

Francine L Shaw: Because they're not counting them.

Matt Regusci: Oh my God. Yeah. Two years from now, all of a sudden the statistics drop significantly.

Francine L Shaw: Am I wrong?

Matt Regusci: No. That's why I'm laughing so hard. I wouldn't, I would've laughed so hard if it wasn't so true. Oh my God.

Okay, well, on that note, don't eat poop. [00:33:00] Definitely do not get listeriosis. If you have a facility, find it. Seek and destroy that MOFO.

Francine L Shaw: You can destroy the poop.

Matt Regusci: Yeah, don't eat poop.