Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast

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Matthew Regusci: And Salmonella and E. coli, they have shown that, that they create a biofilm. So, sanitization and oxidation and cleaning is really complicated now because we're getting so good in our sanitization methods. that the bacteria are actually learning ways of protecting themselves against those sanitization methods.

Intro: Nobody's

got to eat and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans, Francine L. Shaw and Matt Ragucci for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule. Don't eat poop.

Don't eat poop.

Matthew Regusci: Hello. Hello, Francine. Hey, Matt. How are you? I thought I was doing really well. I thought maybe even I was doing better than you until I came onto this software and saw what you were wearing and then realized, no, I think you're having a much, much better day.

Francince Shaw: Hey, it's not every day I get a tiara.

This is fabulous. What girl does not want a tiara?

Matthew Regusci: What? Yeah, totally. So you had told Jim, right, that you were going to let him know what my first response was when I saw you in that tiara. What did I say?

Francince Shaw: I really don't know if I'm going to be able to tell you what his response was. We cannot air that, Jim, because I know my co host so well, we cannot air his response.

Matthew Regusci: But the gist of it was, the second I saw you and your tiara, I said, Oh my land, Francine, you are blank ridiculous. Or blanking ridiculous. Okay, so you have to explain the genesis of this tiara that you're wearing. Well, first off, what is your title now? You should be able to start claiming this.

Francince Shaw: Oh, I am very excited to be Saudija's first goddess of food safety.

Got my plan. In my box? Yes. Very

Matthew Regusci: exciting. The first goddess of food safety. Goddess

Francince Shaw: of food safety. Yes. It's a

Matthew Regusci: really prestigious award, everybody. It is peer reviewed, and multiple people were in the process of making this decision.

Francince Shaw: He's laughing at my T. R. is what he's laughing at. Well, I guess it's an award that Saldivia decided that they were going to give, and they decided that I was very deserving.

After decades. Of my work in this field, they decided that I was worthy of having this title and they gave me

Matthew Regusci: my tierra a round of applause for Francine and her award. When we go to food safety consortium, you're gonna have to wear your crown and you're gonna have to wave like this.

Francince Shaw: I am very flattered and humbled that they have chosen me to represent them.

Matthew Regusci: When I saw that on LinkedIn, I thought that was one of the coolest things ever. I was 100 percent surprised though. You shoes for anybody to fill to get that next goddess. a food safety award. Thank you. So, yes.

Francince Shaw: My heavens. Say what you want. I love my tiara.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. I like how you say my heavens. Don't you control them as the goddess of food safety?

Francince Shaw: It's so fitting, don't you think?

Matthew Regusci: It actually looks really good on you. It looks like it was designed for your head.

Francince Shaw: To mow me is to love me.

Matthew Regusci: No, you is to love you. You do not make life boring. That is 100 percent true. That's a fact. Okay. So what do we have today?

Francince Shaw: So let's talk about outbreaks. It's one right after another.

It's like we no sooner get over one outbreak. And in fact, they're not over. They're open. There's a multitude of outbreaks currently open. It's just one right after another. Most currently is the cucumber outbreak. And I'm thinking, okay, so now I can't buy cucumbers at the grocery store as opposed to buying them at the grocery store.

I don't have a garden. I think Melissa does, but I don't. So yeah, it's crazy. It's like, and these outbreaks, you don't hear about them. So after the fact, so you probably already have the cucumbers in your refrigerator or have eaten them. So it's just really, and we're coming up on peak season for outbreaks.

So far this year, we've already had seven outbreaks. We haven't even hit peak season because produce.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Seven multi state outbreaks

Francince Shaw: or multi state outbreaks. Correct. So peak season is late spring into summer because that's when the produce is harvested. And that's when we tend to have more outbreaks.

And I just think that it is crazy that we can't get this under control with the technology. And the knowledge that we have and the systems that year after year, we continually have 20 plus outbreaks every year. Now, it used to be E. coli was a concern and that's changing, but before I get into that, do you want to talk about the cucumber outbreak a little bit?

Because that's

Matthew Regusci: So for context on this outbreak is really big. It is a cucumber outbreak. It's a multi state outbreak. There are 158 to 162 patients. I think they're still trying to pin down this because as of June 5th There were 158. Now they're saying there's 162 patients that have received this salmonella, gone to hospital, been tested positive for this salmonella.

Hospitalization since March 11th. So it's been an ongoing one, like Francine said, like these outbreaks go on forever. It seems March, April, May, June, like three, four months. And the patients range from one years old to 92 years old, right? Because everybody eats cucumbers. Everybody can eat cucumbers. It's just a huge outbreak.

And the epidemiologist of this is interesting. So on this food safety news article, they walk through the thought process of this becoming linked to cucumbers. And what they said was of the 65 patients interviewed for this salmonella africana outbreak, 72 percent reported eating cucumbers before becoming sick.

So part of that epidemiology of understanding. and linking the actual salmonella genetics to the actual food consumed and ultimately the supplier is understanding what link every of a food everybody ate, right? So of these one hundred and sixty individuals, how many of them ate cucumbers as well? And you have to remember, that's the hard thing, right?

Because these outbreaks are so long, you forget what you ate three, four weeks ago. But then they linked it to cucumbers because 72 percent had eaten cucumbers and then they Test it and found out it was cucumbers. It's crazy to what you were saying, Francine, this is absolutely accurate. It's every year we're having the same thing.

It's a different commodity. And this goes back to one of the episodes that we had a few months ago, Francine about Darren Detweiler's article about it's not, if we have a major food safety outbreak that kills a bunch of people, it's when and what commodity it's going to be. And what the vector is going to be, is it going to be salmonella?

Is it going to be coli? Is it going to be hepatitis? What is it going to be? And it looks like right now it's salmonella and cucumbers, but to your point, there's been what, seven this year. What were, how many were there in 2023 and 2022?

Francince Shaw: Well, before that's how many people have

Matthew Regusci: gotten sick so far have gotten sick.

Yes.

Francince Shaw: How many people didn't report their illness? How many people eat cucumbers and don't even know that they got sick from eating those cucumbers? We will never know.

Matthew Regusci: I think the FDA says it's four times.

Francince Shaw: I'm sure it's been hundreds.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah.

Francince Shaw: If not close to a thousand that we will never know because they weren't, they waited it out or maybe they weren't sick enough to report it.

Matthew Regusci: Or how many elderly people died of foodborne illness and they attached it to something else. Right. Dehydration, kidney failure, heart attack. And they just say that they died from old age and name what it was. Not that it came from the cucumbers that they consumed a week ago.

Francince Shaw: Or people with cancer, anybody that was in one of those high risk populations susceptible and were susceptible to illness.

And those people aren't even factored in.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Or some baby that died of SIDS, some kid that they, and it really was foodborne illness or something.

Francince Shaw: Yeah. So this year so far, it's June 6th. We've had seven multi state outbreaks in 2022. There were a total of 28. That was the number one outbreak that we were all most concerned about.

And when I started to look at what are the outbreaks, the majority of these outbreaks coming from. E. coli is not anymore like it's top of the list. This year, so far, three of them have been Salmonella, two Listeria, and two E. coli.

Matthew Regusci: Say that one more time.

Francince Shaw: Three Salmonella.

Matthew Regusci: Three Salmonella. Two Listeria. Two Listeria.

And two E. coli. Two E. coli. Wow.

Francince Shaw: Last year, there were four Listeria, eight Salmonella, four E. coli, one Cryptosporidium, four Cyclospora. Those are parasites. One unidentified, one from the lead poisoning.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Francince Shaw: I didn't go back to 2022, but I'm sure we would find more of the same. So not the E. coli is not still serious, but it's no longer at the top of the list, which we've said that before the dynamics are changing.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, the Listeria is the scariest one for me, because Listerosis, it's really hard to get Listerosis, but when you get Listerosis, your chances of dying are like one in three. So, you need a lot more Listeria to get sick from it, but if you get sick from it, you're going to, your odds are not good. They're not ever in your favor.

E. coli and Salmonella, you get really sick, most people don't die from it. You get really sick, you feel like you want to die. E. coli. But you don't. A lot of times you end up with kidney, some people end up with kidney failure or something like that. But it's terrible. I don't want to minimize this. It's absolutely terrible.

But the listerosis thing, that's what's really interesting because listeria has been growing in facilities a lot more and growing in products a lot more. And that one is, that's really bad.

Francince Shaw: And with the other two that you mentioned, everybody seems to think that foodborne illnesses are like one and done.

You get it, you get sick. And Life goes on, but a lot of times with the kidney issues and some of the other issues, their conditions, they don't go away. You live with these issues forever in some cases.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. That's what I mean, where you wish you were dead.

Francince Shaw: That's the word I was looking for. Lifelong ramifications.

So yeah. And then like you said, listeria. And my thought is with these things becoming more and more, well, maybe not more and more, but They're not changing, the patterns are changing, the numbers aren't going down. In my mind, I would be thinking, okay, does it happen in manufacturing and processing? Is it happening in the fields?

Where's it happening?

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Happening in the field or happening in the packing plant or a combo of the two.

Francince Shaw: It's a combination.

Matthew Regusci: It's a common, it's most of the time it's a combination. So if you're getting E. coli or salmonella, most of the time it's from fecal coliform that happens in the field some way in a systemic issue.

So your fertilizer is bad. So if you're utilizing organic fertilizer, You buy it from the wrong place and they haven't tested it. You can be spreading salmonella or E. coli onto your field. And so that would be a systemic issue. So it's not like a bird pooped on one cucumber and potentially someone somewhere got sick.

That doesn't show up on a bleep on a radar because like I was talking about with epidemiology, you have to have multiple people getting sick from the same exact bacteria or virus over generally a lot of different places, right? So one bird pooping on a cucumber, it's not going to show up on the CDC.

Systemic issue of bad fertilizer or water or harvest practices. Water could be that you had a dairy or something down the street. maybe even a mile away, that somehow that wastewater ends up into your water or into the river and then you're pulling off the canal into your reservoir and now you have a whole bunch of E.

coli and salmonella that hasn't been treated and you don't treat your water somehow before putting it from your reservoir onto your field. That's another way. Another way is even from a well. You pull well into a reservoir, a whole bunch of ducts. fly in, spend a whole bunch of time on your reservoir, they just happen to have a bunch of E.

coli, you pull it off, you spray it across your field, now you have a systemic issue. Or, your, part of your harvesting practices are flooding of the field at some point in time, you had people in there with their kids, there was a dirty diaper, that dirty diaper had hepatitis in that. That flooding of the field now spread all the way across the field.

Now you have hepatitis across the field. That was early on in my career. That was what happened with green onions in Mexico. Dirty diapers in the field, hepatitis across it. So you have to have some sort of event at the field that creates a systemic issue or you could replicate the exact same thing in a packing house.

So, product comes in with E. coli or salmonella, something goes wrong with your sanitization process, your pH is off, you skip to sanitization, and now you have a spool, literally, in your dunk tank that has been growing a bunch of bacteria and now you're spreading it on more and more products. Produce as it's going through the packinghouse.

Then you create an even wider, larger systemic issue because now you can have it affecting multiple lots through your packinghouse. Same with processing. There is no five log reduction kill step in fresh produce. So, unless you're really good in the packinghouse and can manage All of your processes to the T, the potential of a packing house being a ticking time bomb is huge.

And so that's why food safety people are extremely important in a packing house.

Francince Shaw: It can also come from them not managing cleaning and their hygiene processes properly.

Matthew Regusci: And that's a problem. So the listeria thing could be the same thing too. Listeria can either come from the field in the soil, because listeria is ubiquitous, it's like, you know, everywhere.

And so it could come from the field into the facility and then spread due to what you're saying, not having the correct hygiene sanitization practices. But then also Listeria can grow throughout the facility because it can grow in very cold conditions, you could have your facility be at freezing conditions and Listeria can still be perfectly fine.

That's why we saw it in Bluebird ice cream, right? So Listeria could actually be a facility issue, not a field issue. And that's what's scary for a lot of these packing houses. But yeah, if something goes wrong and I, uh, I talk about food safety outbreaks being a series of events in a baseball game, you could be like superheaded baseball game up five runs and then one inning make a whole series of errors and lose the game.

That's exactly how a packing house and a field could operate. You could have a systemic issue with the field. Um, into the facility, the facility miss a couple readings and it could be they did everything right except they didn't calibrate their equipment. They're adding the right chemicals based upon what they think the pH is, but the pH is off because of the calibrations off or something like that.

And then all of a sudden you have. Huge amounts of bloom of these pathogens that now are co contaminating a bunch of other Products and then going through the facility.

Francince Shaw: Well, and then you've got the cross contamination issues that happen and then once that happens It's just it's virtually impossible Sometimes

Matthew Regusci: oh, it's impossible.

There's no way to get rid of that product.

Francince Shaw: I was talking about the pathogens in the back all of that to get it out of the facility. It becomes a nightmare.

Matthew Regusci: Oh, it becomes an absolute nightmare, particularly in Listeria. Yes. And Salmonella and E. coli, they have shown that, that they create a biofilm. So, sanitization and oxidation and cleaning is really complicated now because we're getting so good in our sanitization methods.

That the bacteria are actually learning ways of protecting themselves against those sanitization methods. So now you have to change out chemicals and sanitization processes just so you're not doing the same thing over and over again and creating super bug in your facility.

Francince Shaw: So I've been on the hypochlorous acid bandwagon, kills listeria and many of the other things we've talked about and our industry is so resistant to change.

We don't like change. Any kind of change, I don't care what, going from paper to digital has been a nightmare. Still, people are resisting that, and that in itself would help with a lot of the issues that we have. And while certain aspects of the industry have done that, there are other parts of the industry that are still fighting it.

And in so many ways, there are changes that are good that would help fix some of these problems. But we're so damn resistant. And I say, we as an industry to change and fighting that battle that in some cases we're like our own worst enemy.

Matthew Regusci: You and I both have been at this for a very long time, climbing an uphill battle, trying to push rocks uphill of trying to get the industry both ways.

I think there's two issues that come with change, okay? There's a lot of issues that come with change, but two main battles that need to be tackled before anybody changes, okay? The first one is understanding I need to change. That is the biggest hurdle. And in this industry, I don't even know within our lifetime, Francine, and I'm saying yours and mine, I'm I know you're a little older, but I may not live as long as you do.

Yes, I'm complimenting you on this. I'm not as healthy as you are. I'm not sure we will get to pass over the threshold of 50 percent to digitization. I think it's still gonna be pen and paper within our lifetime. Just because there are so many people that have done it for so many years and so many generations that they don't feel like they need to change.

In this industry, I think that the minority for the next 20 years are going to be the sophisticated facilities that move up in digitization. Cannot foresee that over 50 percent of the facilities or farms in the United States will have even a basic GMP, GAP. Now that's been a huge shift. When I first started, maybe 2 percent of the facilities and farms had some sort of food safety audit 20 years ago.

Maybe 2%. Now I think we're up to 20 percent and everybody thinks that everybody's getting a food safety audit. Nope. We did the statistics before. Balmier and I sold our company five years ago and less than 20 percent of the facilities and farms. In the United States and also significantly less than that in the world had any type of GMP or good manufacturing practice or good agricultural practices on it.

GMP, GAP. That's huge. And I don't know if we'll get past that threshold of 50%. So when we look at this and we say, how could this happen? Well, this could happen because there's so many companies that still fly under the radar. And even if they have a good manufacturing practice or a good agricultural practice on it, a lot of companies are looking for the cheapest company that's just going to provide them the certificate.

They're not actually caring. Now, I'm not saying everybody. There are a lot of companies that we have certified and Francine, you've been the same way on your side of the industry that we're looking for. I want the hardest, the best. I want to learn from every single one of these or else it's not worth it for me.

Like, I want to be able to come out of here with corrective actions, with things to make me better, blah, blah, blah. But that's the minority of the minority. And that's why we have these issues.

Francince Shaw: Or they email you and say hey, can you just find a way to print me a certificate

Matthew Regusci: about that frenzy? Yes They did not know who the hell you really were when they sent you that email.

We did a whole podcast on it, right? Or was that one of our telephone conversations?

Francince Shaw: We talked about it. You just print me a good, high quality certificate.

Matthew Regusci: They just need the certificate.

Francince Shaw: Quality certificate. No. Yeah. Melissa had somebody call. I went to the A show and wanted to know, they wanted us to supply.

A liberal proctor for an exam.

Matthew Regusci: Is that supposed to mean? Did they fund Biden's campaign? No politics. A liberal

Francince Shaw: proctor.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Okay. So somebody who would just be like, Oh, you know what? If you know, what, if you got 20 percent you tried, that's nice.

Francince Shaw: No, no, that's not what that means. That means if you want to use your book.

Oh,

Matthew Regusci: so that's a liberal proctors and open book tests.

Francince Shaw: Whatever you want to do, whatever you need to do. Do they have a lot of that? Most people know who I am. They're

Matthew Regusci: not going to call us and ask for that, but within the industry, yes, I understand that for you and I, but from the industry, is that. Common. Do people just,

Francince Shaw: Oh, yes.

Yeah. They have a department that deals with fraud. Statistically on the retail side of the industry for food manager certifications, at least the national restaurant association and the national registry. There's an entire department that look for inconsistencies and test scores and they look different things to see if there's fraud happening because you shouldn't be cheating on the exams.

You shouldn't be people test scores. We're not even supposed to see the test whenever we. Yeah, but they come sealed. You know what I mean? We shouldn't even know what the questions are. So, no, you shouldn't be giving students test scores or taking exams for the students. People will pay proctors to take the exam.

It's insane the stuff that happens. It's insane. You don't want to get caught doing that.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. And so with the rise of data, you can see standard deviation curves. Does this particular trainer provide a constantly, they get 100 percent score, so there's standard deviations like zero. Then, yeah, there's probably something going on with that particular trainer.

I

Francince Shaw: taught that class for, oh my God, years. I've taught thousands of 10, 15, 000 people over the years in that class. I'm going to say that I probably had less than five people get 100%.

Matthew Regusci: Really?

Francince Shaw: It's virtually impossible.

Matthew Regusci: So I took that management course 25 years ago. It's for Starbucks and I don't think I got 100 percent on it.

Yeah, that was before I even really understood food safety, right? I was just an employee for Starbucks.

Francince Shaw: Well, the questions are weighted, first of all. So to get even a 90 is difficult, but yeah, to get 100 is very difficult.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Francince Shaw: even like the scores above 95 and you start having a really high pass rate, like it's impossible for every class to have 100 percent pass rate.

That just doesn't happen.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. And particularly consistently right over and over again, I guess there could be anomalies where you had a class that all of them were really engaged. They literally had. Only a few of them. They were all like super stellar managers. You were really in it and maybe taught a little better.

And then they get one class that has it, but that's

Francince Shaw: right. And some of that was attributed to, Hey, I'm really good at one, two B. I had good corporations that I was working for who made sure that their people came in prepared and it wasn't by any means 100 percent pass rate.

Matthew Regusci: To tie a bow on this, 100 percent sure where this recall is coming from, but they have a good enough idea that they are saying that it most likely is coming from Fresh Start Produce Sales, Inc.

of Florida. The recalled cucumbers were shipped in bulk cartons to retail distribution centers, wholesaler, food service distributors in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee. Virginia and West Virginia. And when you look at it, the map, it's like all the southern states are just beat up on this.

Francince Shaw: They were probably closer to the,

Matthew Regusci: yeah, to the source, right? The distribution facility.

Francince Shaw: The producer is what I was going to say.

Matthew Regusci: Distribution. So there you go. Isobiuri. In western states, you're probably okay to eat cucumber?

Francince Shaw: If you want to,

Matthew Regusci: rethink where you're buying

Francince Shaw: them.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, because it said that the FDA's active investigation chart concerns the salmonella africana outbreak with 141 people sickened and a food link not yet identified.

Then right below on this article from Food Safety News says fresh start produce sales is recalling whole cucumbers shipped from May 17th through May 21st. So while the FDA is not saying definitively who it is, it looks like at least one company is starting to pull back product. So, we'll have to see.

We'll learn more. I think I was talking with Austin from Sage. And he was asking because he does a bunch of, he creates a bunch of films, like documentaries and stuff like that, and amazing training videos. He and his partner, I think Richard is just really good at what they do. But he was asking me because I was talking about, I think it'd be really fun.

Francine and I have talked about really doing deep dive history and just current like events that happened, like investigative reporting. And of an outbreak. Step one, step two, step three, step four, this is what happened, blah, blah, blah, doing interviews and all that stuff. And like what Poisoned the Book originally was, because Poisoned the Book is very different than Poisoned the Documentary.

Poisoned the Book is an investigative reporting book of step by steps of what happened during the Jack in the Box outbreak. It's fascinating. If you have not read it, it really truly is fascinating. And Francine and I have talked about having a segment of the podcast where once a month or once every other month, we do a deep dive in this.

And I said, the hardest part of that is trying to do this before the statute of limitations, right? Who's going to admit fault and what things that they could have done different and what decisions that they made going through the process that led to an outbreak, who's going to do that knowing that they could be sued.

And in the United States, that's the problem that we have, right? Like really trying to do a deep dive analysis of outbreaks like this one with the cucumbers or like any of the spinach outbreaks or anything like that. Try to do a deep dive analysis. It's really complicated because people are afraid of being sued for criminal negligence or even falsifying information.

Maybe they did falsify information and that would be a great thing to know. Nobody's going to admit to that. Nobody's going to talk about it because they're afraid of being sued or thrown in jail. And so it's so hard to learn from these type of outbreaks because we just don't have what's going on in somebody's head that made those decisions.

Do you want me to add to that, Francine?

Francince Shaw: No, because you're exactly right. The liability of admitting those things is so huge that Most corporations aren't gonna be like, oh, so this is what we did. We found out that somebody at facility a was falsifying this documentation. And this is what triggered this to happen, which led to this.

And then this person covered up this, which led to this and. The attorneys, they're going to line up at the door.

Matthew Regusci: It's an amazing ambulance to chase, right?

Francince Shaw: That's a shame.

Matthew Regusci: It's a shame because so much could be learned from that. I was talking about the two parts of change is one thinking that they know they need to change.

And the second part is knowing what they need to change and how they need to change it. A rational exercise that could be very complicated based upon the multitude of variables, right? So the first one is an emotional understanding. I need to change or our organization needs to change. And the second one is the rational.

Okay, now that I know we need to change, how do we change? And how do I know I'm making the right decisions? Well, it's really hard to do both of those with peers admitting wrong and how it really messed up everything and how they would have changed everything and made it differently. That could create an emotional response that could actually trigger change.

The second is understanding all these critical events that led to an outbreak that ruined people's lives. That happened from that management team making these series of unfortunate decisions. That would be very powerful understanding where I, as an organization, may have issues that I can see are also similar to these other companies that have gone through the same thing.

And if I change and tweak these things that could help me save lives, my company, and possibly jail time, right? Those, that one exercise could be hugely beneficial to the industry. And unfortunately, we can't do it because of our tort system.

Francince Shaw: So we both watch a lot of Netflix documentaries, right?

Matthew Regusci: Yeah.

Francince Shaw: I'm envisioning the Netflix documentaries where they have the people in the shadows where they've altered their voice, and then the shadow where they're saying, okay, well, this is what happened.

Matthew Regusci: Yes. You're like in the background with

Speaker 4: just completely covered black face and they're like, yeah. Well, when I was in that facility, there were chickens flying through. There was no way I could totally inspect all those chickens. Former USDA worker for the

Matthew Regusci: Poisoned episode.

Francince Shaw: That's, I just watched one just last week where, The company was worth one point billions of dollars.

And then now they're worth like just a fraction of that because of lawsuits and a whole bunch of things that happened. And they had a lot of people that were former employees of the company and they were shadowed out because they didn't want to be identified.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Okay.

Francince Shaw: We don't have that kind of budget.

Matthew Regusci: No, no. Yeah. I don't know though. You are the goddess of food safety. So maybe that could be one of your superhero powers. Manufacturing a large budget.

Francince Shaw: We'll do that. I'll get on that. So, let's talk, speaking of food safety, about our next big thing. Orfly is back. Guess what he's doing now?

Speaker 4: What?

Francince Shaw: He's making jerky in a hotel room.

Jerky. Takes days! Not if you use a hair dryer.

Matthew Regusci: No, he's using the hotel hair dryer to make jerky in Oh my god.

Francince Shaw: He cuts up his flank steak, is what we're using here. He slices that up, mixes all of his ingredients together, the flank steak, the soy sauce, the garlic, and all of his ingredients. And is he

Matthew Regusci: doing this in a bathroom sink?

Francince Shaw: He mixes it all up. He lays it out on a wire rack. I'm not sure where the wire rack came from. Somewhere in a hotel room, maybe. I don't know where that came from. A drawing rack, maybe. Gets the bed pillow, takes off the pillowcase. He's got some kind of wire thing that was on a wood. I don't know what it is, but it must conduct heat somehow.

I don't know. But he puts everything inside the pillowcase, closes it up, and sticks the hair dryer in the pillowcase. He gets up and eats the jerky.

Matthew Regusci: Oh, God. How old is that hair dryer? What type of nastiness is in that vent that is just now pushing onto all of that?

Francince Shaw: What's in the pillowcase? I mean putting

Matthew Regusci: it on a pillow that hundreds of people have used.

Francince Shaw: I don't know what this rod is. That's just Ignorance on my part. I don't know what a rod is. And a wooden, like a wooden, not box, but like a piece of wood. And it lays in there and it's just like this metal rod that he pulls out and lays on top of the steak.

Matthew Regusci: Well if, if, yeah, well metal rod would conduct heat and if you're putting it into a confined area like a pillowcase and blowing hot air into it, then that metal rod is going to heat up more than the meat is.

Francince Shaw: It must have a purpose.

Matthew Regusci: It's for sanitization purposes, Francine. It's going

Francince Shaw: to sanitize real well. Unzips the case and puts everything inside the pillowcase.

Matthew Regusci: Well, thank you.

Francince Shaw: Hotel bathroom beef jerky. That's how you do

Matthew Regusci: it. Hotel bathroom beef jerky. That's

Francince Shaw: how you do it. Hotel bathroom beef jerky. That's I get all my home recipes.

Matthew Regusci: I wonder if he's ever going to be like, I just keep getting mentioned on this show. Don't eat poop. So

Francince Shaw: I don't know. He's got thousands of viewers. It's been millions of times. I'm sure we are hurting.

Matthew Regusci: Well, that was a good one. Yes, it was. All right. Well, Francine, don't eat poop or cucumbers with salmonella in them.