Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast

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Matthew Regusci: One of the questions that we need to figure out is when does it convert to a dangerous amount? Which is the question that we're proposing here in this episode. And he says, he follows up and says, some of the metals found in the tampons, including copper, calcium, iron, and zinc are not considered safe, but recommended for patients and many doctors.

He notes, they would not be damaging in low amounts, but a cumulative amount could have lasting effects on a person's functions. Trace amounts of arsenic, for example, are sometimes found in food and not to be considered toxic. Arsenic's in the soil, so yes. But high amounts can be fatal, right? Yeah, that's like mouse poisoning, right?

Yes, arsenic is not good in high amounts. But there is no safe exposure level to lead. Everybody's

intro: got to eat and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points, from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans Francine L. Shaw and Matt Ragushi for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule. Don't. Eat. Poop.

Don't eat poop.

Matthew Regusci: Hello. Hello, Francine. Today is going to be a very interesting episode, I think. I think so. So what do you have for us today? Tampons. What are we talking about today?

Francine L Shaw: Tampons. I don't physically have tampons.

Matthew Regusci: No, I think this is going to be a very difficult episode for me, Francine.

Francine L Shaw: I think that even though it does not fall in the realm of food safety, I think it's important that we discuss it because it affects many women.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, it does. So I don't know, like this could be like our placenta episode if anybody wants to go see that one, like the don't eat placenta episode, but yeah,

Francine L Shaw: that's what you said earlier.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, don't don't. Okay, so that's been teed up. What's the issue?

Francine L Shaw: My daughter called me the other night. I can't believe we haven't talked about this.

And I talked about what and she said tampons and I'm like, okay, what about tampons? And I had not heard anything. I just can't even believe this is happening. Lead arsenic and potentially toxic chemicals to studies are now being found in tampons and panty liners getting absolutely absurd. It's applesauce.

Lunchable is crazy how this is affecting our lives and it's like, where's it going to stop is I guess my point with all of this apparently studies have been done and says a person is going to spend about 5 years of their total reproductive lifespan using an approximate or estimated 11, 000 tampons, sanitary pads, panty liners.

And other menstrual products. Think about that. That's huge. Doesn't affect you personally. I know all the studies lately, and I'm a baby boomer. When I think about the people of my generation that have cancer and kidney disease and reproductive issues and all these problems that can be linked to these different studies that are coming out in the news over the course of the last several months and years.

My God, it's no wonder.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, again, why is this such a tough topic? Every other guy listening to us is going, No, I understand why this is a tough topic for you. And every woman listening to us knows this is going to be a tough topic for you. It's a tough topic for us. OK, so more stats on this. OK, and then I think, can I go back to your previous question of a bunch of people dying of cancer and stuff like that?

I think it's a it can be a combo, right? It's not like, All of a sudden you started using tampons within your generation and you guys beat in, what was it toxic shock syndrome,

Francine L Shaw: toxic shock syndrome or something. It

Matthew Regusci: was like an infection because

Francine L Shaw: the absorption and, and

Matthew Regusci: they're left in there too long or whatever.

And

Francine L Shaw: yes, it was, yeah, that was a while back. You guys

Matthew Regusci: figured out how to. Get through that.

Francine L Shaw: There was, dear God, you remember the Johnson and Johnson baby powder ordeal? Oh yeah. You know, that was the problem. Talcum, probably not just Johnson and Johnson, there was the talcum powder was a problem. And it was like, we've figured that out.

And for God's sake, you've got tampons and fanny liners are an issue. The world hates women. Yes, that text the other night.

Matthew Regusci: Yes,

Francine L Shaw: God.

Matthew Regusci: I think I texted you back like bloody hell and then thank Eve. It's all her fault or something like that.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah, you did.

Matthew Regusci: Uh, yeah, so. And there were some interesting stats on this.

I was looking at this since you brought it over. Research detected measurable concentrations of at least 16 metals that we're looking for in the tampons, as well as elevated mean concentrations of toxic metals, including lead, arsenic, and cadmium. The average woman uses something around, I think you said 7, 600 tampons a year.

That's a lot of tampons. That's a lot. 74 people who menstruate may use more than 7400 tampons over the course of their reproductive years. That's a lot. So, am I shocked that there are heavy metals in tampons? No. There's heavy metals in just about everything. You and I have had this conversation before.

No. The real question becomes, and this article on NPR is a really great article, they really lay out the whole study and basically what questions are next. And in this article on, from MBRs, the bigger question is how harmful are these metals in large concentrations? And I guess we don't know what those concentrations are and also what the absorption is.

If this was a suppository, the absorption would be very different. I don't know because I haven't spent a lot of time researching that area. So those are questions that need to be asked. What are the levels of heavy metals and toxic chemicals that are in the tampons and how much of it is being absorbed through the vagina into the body?

Is it zero? Then it's not that big of a deal. If it's like the large intestines or small intestines where it could be a lot, then it could be a bigger deal, right? Like you could die by having this, like a couple shots of alcohol that you consume via your mouth will kill you with the suppository through the anus because the absorption rate is much higher.

So frat boys figured that out when they were doing like butt bongs or whatever stupid. Things that those guys do and yeah, so what is that absorption rate? We have gotten so insane This show is getting to be so crazy. What the hell are we talking about, Francie? Okay, but anyways, so then to answer your question Yeah, because if there's high amounts of heavy metals and the vagina is absorbing these toxins into the body.

And then you're also getting higher concentrations of heavy metals through everything else that's eaten. And consumed eating, drinking, bathing, absorbing through your skin, et cetera, et cetera, through your breathing. Then yeah, I mean, and then also the age has grown since boomer time. And so, yeah, the age of boomers have grown to be in their eighties too.

So you have a lot more. people dying of cancer because they get older, but yeah, the exposing of, and we're seeing that now. So millennials, my generation, gen Y millennials, we're seeing people already dying of heart attacks pretty early, getting cancer earlier on, like at low doses. Is this bad? Yeah, it's not good for you, but by compounding it with all these other products, then yeah, now you're having high doses of, of heavy metals in your body.

It's not good.

Francine L Shaw: So I would think common sense would tell us with the amount of time that you put that in place and it stays there, that there's got to be some absorption rate. I don't know it either, but I common sense would tell us there almost has to be. Compile that with everything that we've talked about that's happening.

Any one of these things alone may not be a problem. You know what I mean? Any one of these things alone may not be a problem if it was just the tampons, just the talcum powder, just the plastics, just the Any one of the multiple things that we've talked about, but all of those things in conjunction with one another are a problem.

Matthew Regusci: It's a problem.

Francine L Shaw: And it's just one thing right after that. I can't wait. It's cut off my sentence here and start talking about something else. I can't wait till Tracy listens to this episode. So what is the next thing going to be? We already know We smear all these lotions and Perfumes all over our bodies and the shampoo.

My God, what's in them?

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. So in this NPR article, there's really some great information here, but Dr. Nathaniel D. Nicola, an OBGYN said that. One of the questions that we need to figure out is when does it convert to a dangerous amount, which is the question that we're proposing here in this episode. And he says, he follows up and says, some of the metals found in the tampons, including copper, calcium, iron, and zinc are not considered safe, but recommended for patients and many doctors.

He notes. They would not be damaging in low amounts, but a cumulative amount could have lasting effects on a person's functions. Trace amounts of arsenic, for example, are sometimes found in food and not to be considered toxic. Arsenic's in the soil, so, yes. But high amounts can be fatal, right? Yeah. That's like mouse poisoning, right?

Yes. Arsenic is not good in high amounts. But there is no safe exposure level to lead. And that is absolutely correct. Now, lead is ubiquitous. It's everywhere. So that goes to the other thing too, Francine, is the longer we live and the more exposure we have to lead, mercury, cadmium over a long period of time.

When I say a long period of time, we're seeing life expectations drop in the United States. What is it going to look like over the next 20, 30 years? Is this an evolutionary moment? At which certain humans just start dying off and becoming more evolved to be able to handle more of these chemicals and heavy metals over a period of time.

Like when I say period of time, I mean like generations. It's going to be fascinating. I don't know.

Francine L Shaw: This is actually the first article that I read. It says about choosing products that don't contain plastic, including polyester and polypropylene. Polyester. What are you wearing?

Matthew Regusci: Polyester. I wear polyester like every, well not every day, wear a lot of cotton, but probably every vest I have has polyester in it.

And I wear a vest every day, this shirt, this, that my polo shirt is probably got polyester in it, but yeah, you aren't today. You're wearing 100 percent cotton. I assume

Francine L Shaw: I have 100 percent cotton on if I had a dress on, it would be probably, I mean,

Matthew Regusci: yeah, there's plastic in everything.

Francine L Shaw: We live in a plastic world.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. You know that, that reminded me of the Barbie girl. Have you heard that song? I'm a Barbie girl in a Barbie world made of plastic. Life. Fantastic. Actually, that came out when I was in high school. So I had girlfriends. Oh my God. I

Francine L Shaw: know that song. And yeah.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, but we're finding microplastics everywhere and we're finding everything now because we're looking for it, right?

Was there heavy metals and stuff in tampons 40 years ago? Yes, probably, right? I'm assuming the product has not changed much over the last 40 years.

Francine L Shaw: Well, I think the whole sustainability movement has made people much more aware of a lot of things.

Matthew Regusci: I think the sustainability movement, but also the access to testing has also increased.

I mean, 40 years ago, they were not testing down to parts per trillion of this stuff. Like now we have the ability. It's just assumed when I test stuff in the laboratory that people that were testing to parts per billion. But I remember 20 years ago, that was really cool that we were testing to parts per billion for pesticides.

So I think that's the other thing too, is the equipment has gotten way better. There's labs basically everywhere where you could test this stuff. The lab equipment manufacturers have made it easier for labs to get the equipment. You don't have to put 500, 000 down right off the bat. You can basically mortgage it like a house.

Francine L Shaw: It made me remember about sustainability made me remember that I'd read something about organic in one of these articles and it was this one lead concentrations were higher in non organic tampons while arsenic was higher in the organic. tampons. It added no category had consistently lower concentrations of all or most metals.

Matthew Regusci: So lead was lower in organic

Francine L Shaw: lead. Concentrations were higher in non organic. So yes, it was lower. That means it would have been lower in the organic. Yes,

Matthew Regusci: where arsenic was higher. Okay, listen, when it comes to this topic. So she texted me this out a few days ago. And so we got on and I was like, what do you think we're going to talk about today?

And I was like, tampons. So I should have known gas, but I don't even know what they're made of. Are they made of cotton? What are they made of? Like, when you say organic versus inorganic, is the organic material that they're utilizing in cotton?

Francine L Shaw: I believe so. I'm not going to go 100%, but I always thought it was organic.

I always thought it was cotton.

Matthew Regusci: Oh my God. My search history on Google is jacked up now. Thank you, Francine. I'm probably going to get coupons in the mail for tampons now because I'm researching this.

Francine L Shaw: Like your wife listening to this, my husband's going to listen to me.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, your husband's going to be like, wait, what?

Do you see these? No, you can't get pregnant at your age. No. Okay, so the absorbent core of tampons are made of plant based material like cotton, rayon, or a mixture of both. So, there you go. Things I was hoping I'd go my whole entire life not knowing. Yeah, okay, so that makes sense. So it'd be like organic cotton versus inorganic cotton.

But it also says along with, so, Wikipedia, thank you Wikipedia. The majority of tampons sold are made of rayon or a blend of rayon and cotton along with synthetic fibers. So, synthetic fibers are most likely made of petroleum products.

Francine L Shaw: Rayon and synthetic fibers. I guess at least it's not polyester. Is that a plus?

I don't know.

Matthew Regusci: So much of this conversation, it's hard to say this is a plus. Alright, so synthetic fibers. Oh my god, now I'm looking at an article about, on CNN about tampons. Yeah,

Francine L Shaw: I saw the one on CNN.

Matthew Regusci: So this one says about 70 percent of all women, American women use tampons. On average, a woman will use 11, tampons in a lifetime.

That's

Francine L Shaw: in the beginning when we started. Yes. That's the one I was looking at in the beginning when you were looking at NPR. NPR is probably the first one I read. When I sent you the original NPRs, the one I think my daughter had sent me. Wow. It's going to vary. I'm not going to go into details, but from woman to woman.

Matthew Regusci: From woman to woman. Thank you. Variety

Francine L Shaw: of factors.

Matthew Regusci: Thank you.

Francine L Shaw: Oh, you are not right.

Matthew Regusci: Okay. I don't know if I will continue researching this, but if you continue researching this and you find out. If heavy can be absorbed through that area. I can't believe you're struggling with

Francine L Shaw: this.

Matthew Regusci: This is odd that I am struggling so hard with this.

I'm shocked. I try to like not know whatever is going on over there. Yeah. Like my wife has been, it's not secretive, right? But it's not like, It's something, let's just say over 20 something years of marriage. It's not something she and I have discussed much. I guess this is just a topic that kind of hasn't even happened to me.

I know my wife already calls you my second wife. So yeah,

Francine L Shaw: I guess because I had a lot of issues that led me to have a hysterectomy and an ovary out when I was less than 31. It was a very common topic in my household. So, for me, it's just like talking about an arm.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Yeah, it's also your body, right? It's also a natural thing that happens.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah, which is funny because there are some things I can be awkward about talking about. This is not one of them.

Matthew Regusci: Obviously. It's

Francine L Shaw: really bizarre.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah. Yeah, that's fascinating. This is literally, this is way more complicated than me to even talk about placenta. That is so fascinating to me.

I did not realize how hard it was going to be for me to record this episode.

Francine L Shaw: I've never seen you struggle like this. I'm enjoying it.

Matthew Regusci: You're enjoying it. Yeah, my wife is going to love this show. She's going to laugh. My daughter is too. Because they never see me like this as well. I can talk

Francine L Shaw: about anything.

Yeah, neither one of us really struggle talking about much of anything. I think.

Matthew Regusci: Okay, so back to what? So if the absorption rate of heavy metals can be fairly high through the vaginal area, Francine, then, yeah, this should be an issue. We should be looking into this. It's an issue enough that I should be talking to Jackie about it from clean label project.

This is something that that we should be testing.

Francine L Shaw: That's all for her. Will you be able to talk to her about it?

Matthew Regusci: Well, now that you've desensitized me, it doesn't take much to get desensitized for me. Now that I'm desensitized, yes, I will talk to Jackie. Or the clean label project about if we should be gearing our lab up to do category testing for tampons.

Now, obviously we won't be able to test the absorption rate to the vaginal area . We'd be able to test the tampons themselves. So we would have to know what is the absorption rate, , is it high? And if so, then yes, this could be an issue.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah, I, and I think it's a really important topic. Laughed a lot during this, but I think it's a really important topic.

Otherwise I wouldn't have thought we should talk about it because it certainly know what the ratio is now of men to women, but it certainly affects, I would venture to say almost every female. So,

Matthew Regusci: uh, okay. I, I literally cannot think of anything that we will not talk about on this show. Yeah, me neither.

Wow.

Francine L Shaw: What kind of myth do you have today, Matt? That

Matthew Regusci: is a very good question.

Francine L Shaw: You know what I have? Well, I've got a good one. What came first, the chicken or the egg? It's a bit, its question what came first, the chicken or the egg. There's an answer to this question.

Matthew Regusci: The egg.

Francine L Shaw: No, the chicken. Scientists have determined that the chicken came first because the eggshell contains protein that can only be made from a hen.

Matthew Regusci: So how, yeah, these are those things where I 100 percent believe in evolution and I 100 percent believe in God. God is the why and the evolution is the how. And there are a lot of things where you're like, okay. I totally believe in evolution and the how. We're really understanding how that all happens.

But again, how was the hen created before the egg? And because the egg had all those proteins that needed to be done. Okay, well, then how'd the hen get created?

Francine L Shaw: I get caught in that same loop. I don't know. Yeah. And sometimes I don't know is an acceptable answer.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, I don't know. And I, I'm okay with not knowing because I understand the why and we just get better and better scientifically learning about the how and it's fascinating to me.

And because I believe in both are strengthened because of it. My belief in God on the why is strengthened because I keep learning about the how, and it's fascinating to me.

Francine L Shaw: There you go.

Matthew Regusci: There you go. Well, after that conversation, our whole episode could be cut or outers or maybe just like, you know what?

Eff it guys, redo this again.

Francine L Shaw: Our 80 plus countries just fell down to 10 and our United States, there's one country, but there's one state that's still a holdout. I don't remember which one it is. One state is still a holdout, but we just lost the other 49.

Matthew Regusci: Most countries in the world. Believe in a god. So I didn't say a specific god.

I just said my god, but it could be everybody else's too, could have their own god. Well, no, I'm not. That explains the why. Okay, yeah, but the reproductive rate thing, you should be wearing a burqa for us to get into a few other countries.

Francine L Shaw: I have a picture of me with a, it wasn't a burqa, I don't think.

Matthew Regusci: Is this when you went to

Francine L Shaw: Dubai?

Matthew Regusci: Dubai? I was really worried about you when you went to Dubai.

Francine L Shaw: A lot of people were, and I had no fear.

Matthew Regusci: You don't have any

Francine L Shaw: fear? I was treated very well in Dubai. I was treated very well in Dubai. Yeah. I had no fear. I was not afraid. I was not mistreated. I was, Everybody was very respectful. I enjoyed Dubai. I would go back.

I like Dubai.

Matthew Regusci: Yeah, I would go to Dubai. But it's different, I'm a male.

Francine L Shaw: You can definitely see difference, but I don't live in Dubai, you know what I mean?

Matthew Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: But yeah, I had a good time there. Yeah,

Matthew Regusci: well on that note, don't eat poop.