Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast

Matthew Regusci: Darren Detweiler wrote an article on Food Safety News just recently, and it outlines a bunch of the major food safety crises that have happened over the last few decades. So starting with Jack in a Box, Jensen Farms with Listeria and Cantaloupe, Dacoster Eggs with Salmonella in eggs, involving approximately 550 million eggs.
The Peanut Corp of America, probably one of the craziest Outbreaks because I don't think anybody really knew in the food industry, how ubiquitous peanuts and peanut butter is in so much stuff. And
Intro: nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans Francine L. Shaw and Matt Ragushi for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule. Don't. Eat. Poop. Don't eat poop.
Hello, hello Francine! Bye Matt.
Francine L Shaw: How do you follow that up? How do I be excited with a high, Matt, after what we were just talking about? And I don't even want to discuss it.
Matthew Regusci: We're not a political show, but Francine and I do have views on politics, and she and I were talking about what a complete and total mess.
Francine L Shaw: We were.
Matthew Regusci: Regardless of what party you are, I think all of us can agree, what a mess. Our options are terrible, terrible, and terrible. So, that's what we, that's what we got. Okay.
Can you put a
Matthew Regusci: poop emoji on that? One thing we can totally be sure about, regardless of who gets elected, nothing will change with food safety.
Francine L Shaw: Do you know what I love? We just had that total conversation. We agreed to disagree. We agreed about the bulk of it, but we do disagree. Somewhat. And we're still laughing.
Matthew Regusci: Oh, 100%. I wish that's the way the world actually worked. Oh my god, me too. I wish that's the way it worked. So Francine and I are both center, left and right, right?
I'm not going to tell you which way she or I are, but we can agree on certain issues, disagree on certain issues. 100 percent agree on food safety. That is definitely where we agree on. And we both agree that our options this year. Okay. This is what we get.
Conversations about politics where it's just, it's, you can actually just have fun talking to someone who you don't agree with. And man are, I don't know what it is. I think there's a whole lot of variables that have happened over the course of the last decade or so that have, swung extremes on both sides.
Francine L Shaw: Oh, I agree. Just a basic intellectual conversation where you don't stop with basic
Matthew Regusci: intellectual, let alone a conversation.
Francine L Shaw: We need to stop now. We need to
Matthew Regusci: stop because
Francine L Shaw: we're going to go down a hole and we're going to make somebody mad. I will definitely
Matthew Regusci: stop us from going down a hole. That is not going to happen.
So on with the podcast. We're going to talk about food safety culture and give some context. Are you going to food safety summit? I am going to go to the food safety summit. Will you be there?
Matthew Regusci: I will not be there. No. I know. When is it again? It's in a couple of weeks, right? Yeah. I should probably
buy my ticket.
I should probably register. My daughter in law listens to the podcast
Francine L Shaw: and right now she's like, why would you register yet? Why wouldn't you just buy the ticket when you walk in the door? It's a personality.
Matthew Regusci: This is why you and I get along so well, but we could never ever get along. I think you and I, obviously the podcast works and you and I could run a company together, but we would have to have a Melissa or somebody.
Run like each of us would have to have our own Melissa that we could then have talked to each other to make sure That like plane tickets got bought.
Francine L Shaw: They need to make sure that we have our shit together because
Matthew Regusci: you and I alone Well, and you know what? This is gonna be a good test because this year we in fact the fact maybe we should have Melissa Remind us that we should get an LLC.
We're actually gonna build a company together. This is crazy
Francine L Shaw: So it's like business wise for the most part, like the things that I have to do get done, but the things that are just like, ah, crap, I need to do that.
Matthew Regusci: Oh, I know. So, and that's, and that's the reason why I'm not going to Food Safety Summit is because I'm now CEO of Ellipse Analytics, which is like the certification body of Clean Label Project.
We run all the certification process and the analytics for Clean Label Project. It's fascinating as the CEO, I am very organized and I know because of my shortcomings, I know what to ask the staff to do to make sure that balls don't get dropped and I can run that very well, but you're right when it comes to booking travel or something like that, it's Oh shoot, that's right.
I'm going to be gone in three days, theoretically, if I buy my ticket and book my hotel room. So we've worked together on
Francine L Shaw: projects, and you know that it's like, when I give you a project, it's complete, it's done, and it's Oh, 100%. It's great. That type of stuff, I'm fantastic at. It's like, I make a million decisions a day.
Matthew Regusci: Yeah.
Francine L Shaw: When it comes to some of this other stuff, I'm just like I don't know.
Matthew Regusci: I know.
Francine L Shaw: I don't know. Whatever.
Matthew Regusci: I'm so there with you. Yeah. So anyway. My wife says this all the time. The whole entire world could fall apart and you would come up with a five plan process for our family on how we're going to survive.
But if, if you lose a shoe, you freak out. I don't get it. It's the little things. We knew this before we started the podcast, but then it just, as the podcast goes on, it's, Oh Lordy. Yeah, scary. How do they function?
So anyway, the food safety summit in a couple of weeks, and a lot of the topics are going to be based around food safety culture.
And you were like, Matt, we need to talk about this because, and I was like, well, can you give me the context Francine? And then Francine started into this story. And I was like, nevermind. Let's just pause, stop, and put this on the podcast because I don't need to know the context. We can, I know food safety culture enough that whatever context you have Francine, we can discuss.
Francine L Shaw: So yes, I was looking at the agenda. A couple of the topics are on food safety culture, and food safety culture is important. We're not going to deny that. Every time I read articles, and I've written probably dozens of articles on food safety culture, And Darren Detweiler, Dr. Detweiler, food safety icon, whatever we want to call him, our friend, whatever we want to call him, just wrote an article for Food Safety News a few days ago, which basically had to do with food safety culture falling apart.
And I think that when we talk about food safety culture, and I don't care if it's at a conference, Or if it is when we write the articles, I truly believe that a lot of important factors are left unsaid and it's because we don't want to ruffle feathers.
Matthew Regusci: Now I'm really interested because you and I, obviously we are really worried about ruffling feathers.
Francine L Shaw: Well, and I think sometimes people are afraid of what we might say. I'm going to say a lot of fluff, and there's a lot of talk about what needs to happen in the C suite. And that's all fine and good. What needs to happen in the C suite is great because that's where things start. But how do we get it down to the ground level?
Matthew Regusci: Yeah, and when you talk about Darren Detwine's article, just for context for myself, are you talking about the anticipating the inevitable, predicting the next major food? Yeah. Fascinating article. Great article. Great article. So to give a little context about this article, so then we can go further into what Francine's talking about, is Darren Detweiler wrote an article on Food Safety News just recently, and it outlines a bunch of the major food safety crises that have happened.
over the last few decades. So starting with Jack in a Box, Jensen Farms with Listeria and Cantaloupe, Dacoster Eggs with Salmonella in eggs, involving approximately 550 million eggs. The Peanut Corp of America, probably one of the craziest outbreaks because I don't think anybody really knew in the food industry how ubiquitous peanuts and peanut butter is in so much stuff.
Throughout our food chain. And so it impacted the, it was a small amount of peanuts, small supplier, less than 1 percent of all peanut butter in the nation affected thousands and thousands of skews and billions of dollars. ConAgra grocery products in 2002 and 2015. Chipotle Mexican Grill. We all know about Chipotle, or those of you that don't know, they had a series of cascading events and food safety that got tons of people sick and ended up the founder CEO, having to resign over that billions of dollars in market value lost.
Bluebell Creamery in 2015. That Listeria outbreak was huge, almost a 20 million fine. The crazy stuff about the family dollar stores that you and I talked about, just the amount of rats everywhere. We're still talking about it. Bad. Yeah, we're still talking about it. And so he lays out all of these and then he says, where's the next one and when is it going to hit?
It's not an if. It's a where and when because we don't have enough food safety culture across the supply chain across all these food industries. There's a lot of checklists. There's a lot of people pencil whipping stuff, which is, I have this log I have to fill out. I'm just going to fill it out and just fake it.
A lot of stuff like that, where there are processes and practices in place Transcribed That are not being followed because there is no culture of really understanding and valuing the why behind it, which is what we talk about all the time. And Darren is saying, because of that, it's not an, if there's going to be a massive outbreak, that's going to kill a lot of people and sick in many more and harm the industry overall.
It's a when and where, which I agree with you, Francine, that hit me. And I was like, Oh my gosh, as much as you and I talk about this, I never thought of it like that. And so I just wanted to give context to this article so that when you break this doubt, it helps with that. Go for it.
Francine L Shaw: So he's 100 percent correct.
It's going to happen. We don't know when or where, but there's 100 percent no doubt that this is going to happen. Do you agree?
Matthew Regusci: I do.
Francine L Shaw: There's no doubt it's going to happen. Part of the problem is that we don't teach the why behind the what. Why? We don't. In any one of those corporations that he talked about, if you were to say to them, how's your food safety culture?
What would they say?
Matthew Regusci: What's a food safety culture? No, they wouldn't.
Francine L Shaw: It depends on
Matthew Regusci: who you're talking to. The
Francine L Shaw: C series? I'm talking about those companies in particular. If we would have gone to them before those issues happened,
Matthew Regusci: they
Francine L Shaw: know what a food safety
Matthew Regusci: culture is. No. They wouldn't. No. No some of the jack in the box in okay, that was
Francine L Shaw: okay in 1993.
No, but if we'd gone to chipotle, so
Matthew Regusci: Okay, interestingly
Francine L Shaw: enough.
Matthew Regusci: I talked to chipotle beforehand. My former partner was working with chipotle beforehand I think before All these outbreaks chipotle would have and I know because I talked to them about food safety. They were more interested in food miles and sustainability and Organics and all of that stuff.
They were more interested in that than they were food safety. So they were making decisions. On their supply chain based upon that. So they would say that they would have a healthy environmental culture and then food safety would follow. I don't think they were thinking food safety culture at all. I 100 percent know that they are now because I know their VP of food safety.
She's absolutely amazing. Chipotle is a completely different company now than it was
Francine L Shaw: back
Matthew Regusci: then in terms of food safety, completely different company, but back when this is happening. If you would have said food safety culture, they were, would have been soon enough to be like, Oh, that must be the culture of food safety.
But there would have been no real understanding of what that means.
Francine L Shaw: Okay. So I'm going to take what you just said and say that there are companies that would say we have an excellent food safety culture right now. Chipotle. It's an excellent food safety culture right now.
Matthew Regusci: Yes.
Francine L Shaw: And that's what most of them would say in the C suite and further down.
Matthew Regusci: Oh, you're saying before that, before you, before all the outbreaks, they would have said they had an excellent food safety culture. You think that they would have?
Francine L Shaw: I think they would have said they have a good food safety culture. I think if we would have gone and I also met with them, it was actually right after the outbreaks and they felt they were doing a good job with food safety.
Prior to that, I'm not going to say they said it was excellent, but they thought they were doing a good job
Matthew Regusci: with. Yeah, I would agree with you on that. Cause that was very similar to the conversation that I had. And then you start asking questions and you're like, well, how, right? Like all of a sudden something else has happened.
So I, okay. I agree with you. I think those big companies did. I think peanut corpse of America would have said to you, get out of my room. Food safety culture. No, I think some of these people on this list, some of these companies on this list. We're so anti food safety because they just felt like it was a terrible waste of time and money because I've talked to a lot of really big companies where they tell me my job is annoying cost, and they've never gotten either consumer sick for 40 years.
This is a three generation company. They've been around for 150 years and. And you've heard this too, I'm sure, at the restaurant side of things. So I do agree with you. I think there's some of these companies that would have said they had a good food safety culture, and I think there's some of these companies that would have told you to go fly a kite.
Francine L Shaw: I had a CEO say to me one time, to roll out this food safety program at my company would cost me more than an outbreak.
Matthew Regusci: Yeah, which was true in the past, which was true in the past. But now the fines, the FDA is cracking down on these fines. Where we're talking 25 million 20 million dollar fines
Francine L Shaw: So let's not talk about the media and the drop in stock the value regaining consumer
Matthew Regusci: 100
Francine L Shaw: and everything else that goes with that, but my point is Get
Matthew Regusci: to the point franzie
Francine L Shaw: Right all these policies and procedures and everybody at a specific level Thinks that everything is going fine But I don't think sometimes these people step in to the role or the areas that are actually supposed to be applying the policies and procedures.
Matthew Regusci: I 100 percent agree with you.
Francine L Shaw: So when they do, and I've said this a thousand times, do they wash their hands when they walk into that kitchen? Do they put on a hat when they walk into that kitchen? Do they follow the same rules? that they expect those team members to be following when they walk in to the facility.
The answer is no. So what kind of example are they setting when they walk into those facilities?
Matthew Regusci: Yes.
Francine L Shaw: And the same goes for the auditors and the inspectors. A lot of times they aren't either a good food safety culture. Sets those policies and procedures and they follow them from the top to the team member level.
And they explain the whys of why this stuff is important. They don't just say, this is how we have to do it.
Matthew Regusci: Right. And you know, your thing too, is walking through the procedures as well, which is being a new CEO of a company. That's a certification body and being in certification bodies my whole entire life.
So. There's policies and procedures and what we do as a certification body. And so I'm asking my staff, okay, can you please print this up and let's walk through each of these procedures, train me on it because I need to know them because I'm brand new. I don't know these procedures, but train, but walk me through each of them step by step and what they do on a daily basis.
isn't sometimes actually what's on the paper. Now what's on the paper may be wrong, right? The way that they are doing things may be the right way, and it's just written down wrong. But you don't know that unless those two things get tested sometimes, right? Or what could be on paper actually is right.
Scientifically, the temperatures and time have to be this, and that's written on the paper, and what they're doing on the floor is very different. Not good, right? And so, so actually walking through those policies and procedures, upper management, C suite, should be down on the floor, actually walking through these.
Because sometimes, No, not sometimes all the time. You need someone who isn't actually working the floor everyday basis to check to make sure things are right. Because if you're doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, even if it's wrong, it's really hard to change. And you can't change unless somebody comes in and goes, Yeah, no, you're doing it wrong.
And then following up with them over and over again. But it takes someone who isn't seeing the same thing over and over again to actually see when there's something wrong. That's not always the case, but a lot of times what I've seen is the best case. And that's why auditing exists. Right? It's an outside set of eyes coming in and checking to make sure the policies and procedures are actually being documented and actually being run correctly and all that stuff, but that doesn't have to be done by an auditor.
It should be done internally, but we just don't see enough of this happen, and particularly at the C suite.
Francine L Shaw: And sometimes, this isn't what I was going to say, but sometimes, The way it's written isn't practical. So somebody at the floor level has decided to change it because it wasn't practical, but nobody realized that it wasn't practical because it was only written in theory.
It wasn't tested. So I was having a conversation. I used to do corporate training for a company. And my perception of this company is actually amazing because they did everything, in my opinion, perfectly when it came to the training, these employees had to come in. If their homework wasn't done, the prerequisite work was not done.
We checked their books. The work isn't done. They don't have their book. We sent them home. That was a fail as far as the company was concerned. If they didn't pass the test, It was a fail and it was a three strikes. You're out, you lose your job. The company was that serious about it or they were denoted.
Talk to somebody that worked at the store level during the time that I'm doing this corporate training, right? And find out that they have no idea why they're taking the temperatures. Or that fudging the temperatures of the product is wrong Therefore they're fudging the temperatures on the time and temp logs if
Matthew Regusci: I filled it out though I filled it out.
I was told to fill this thing out.
Francine L Shaw: Absolutely. And and if the temperature isn't right After four hours when they take the temperature Shut the lid on the warmer wait a half hour 45 minutes. Now, we're at almost five hours So the temp comes up, and then write the temperature down. So now we're at almost five hours, temperatures come up, we write it down.
No idea that there's a possibility that they could kill somebody. They just know that they need to have a right temperature in the time temperature law. Because the why was never explained. All they knew was something that they had to do. So those are the things, I feel like, those are the things we need to talk about.
Even conference level, when we talk about food safety culture and it, Somebody that writes articles said to me, you know, I need to be real careful because if I write this stuff down or I talk about it, I'm not going to be invited back.
This is a food safety person saying this. Yes.
Matthew Regusci: Why even do it then? Is it just a job?
Francine L Shaw: Let's be honest. There's a lot of things people don't want to hear.
Matthew Regusci: Oh, 100%. I'm sure you and I are blacklisted from a lot of places.
Francine L Shaw: And they don't want to hear it because Everything just stays status quo.
Matthew Regusci: Actually, you
Francine L Shaw: know
Matthew Regusci: what? I'd rather that. Okay. So here's where I agree and disagree with her logic. I agree.
There will be people that won't want her back. If she talks about that, that is absolutely true, but does she really want to be there and be associated with those people, with those companies, with those events, Darren Detwiler talks about too. There's not enough of consumer impact. In a lot of these conferences, and I think it's because a lot of these conferences don't want to see consumer impact, but the ones that do bring Darren Detweiler and those of you who don't know, Darren Detweiler was on Poisoned, his whole entire life changed because when his son died 30 years ago in the Jack in the Box outbreak, and he's made it a life mission and goal to teach people, particularly the industry, food industry, about food safety.
He knows when he goes to events, he's not going to be well received by some companies. They should be hearing that the ones that don't want to hear what you have to say are the ones that need to hear what you have to say.
Francine L Shaw: 100%. I spoke, it's been several years ago now to Texas Environmental Health Association.
And I talked about something serious. And one of the things that I said was about when health inspectors go in, they need to set an example. And if you're writing up health violations for people that aren't. wearing hair restraints and have on nail polish and aren't washing their hands, then by God, you better be doing it too.
You have to lead by example. And again, it's all a part of food safety culture. And I just think that it's important that we conduct that ongoing training. We explain the whys. We're not afraid to look at new technology to help us to update the checklist that we have to look at new products that are on the market and stop staying with the status quo because we think that it's always worked.
Matthew Regusci: So your premise is because this is gonna be big in food safety summit is a lot of those companies that had those major outbreaks that Darren is talking about. Didn't know what they didn't know and we're in this isolated bubble thinking that they really were I would agree with you I think that probably half to two thirds, maybe three quarters of that list would fall into that bucket I think the other ones were obstinate and just they didn't give a crap And so what we have is we're going to have a major food safety crisis sometime Somewhere and it could be from one of those two thirds to three quarters of the companies that the C suite really does think they have all their crap together when they really don't.
Or it could be from the quarter of the companies that are just like, I F it. I hate food safety. You guys are just terrible. It could come from one of those two buckets. So if you are one of those two thirds to three quarters of this great companies that cause a lot of those peak companies on the list, we're great companies.
And if you are on that, and you're not 100 percent sure that will not be you in the future with a major food safety outbreak, then yeah, you should take some advice for Francine and I and go look and make sure that what you think is happening is actually happening. I 100 percent agree with you, Francine.
And I, you know what, that's a really good point because I don't think that's, I think there's a lot of talk about the, what is food safety culture, but I don't think there's a lot of talk about actually going back and just checking to make sure that this stuff is actually getting done.
Francine L Shaw: I don't know if we talked about this or not.
It wasn't that long ago. I was in a restaurant. I went in the, and it could happen anywhere. I went in the restroom to wash my hands. And there was no water in the sink. No water. So I came out of the restroom, and I had soap all over my hands. So I tried to struggle to get out the door with the soap on my hands.
And I go into the other restroom, which fortunately did have water, and I washed my hands, finished washing my hands. There was hand sanitizer in the hallway there, which isn't a hundred percent effective for everything. I go to the counter and say to the young lady, just so you know, the one restroom, the first restroom back there on the left doesn't have any running water.
And got up.
Matthew Regusci: Yeah,
Francine L Shaw: I'm gonna 100 percent guarantee you that this is a company that thinks they have a good food safety culture.
Matthew Regusci: You know what? Wow. Really good point.
Francine L Shaw: 100 percent guarantee you they think they have a good food safety culture. I could have picked up the phone and called somebody on their board.
Matthew Regusci: Maybe we should. Because we, you and I know a lot of people really high up at a lot of very big companies. Maybe we should be just calling these people up and being like, Hey, I know this is tactical and has nothing to do with your job. But I just want to let you know about the experience that I had here.
And if that's the case, it may be happening in a lot of your different places that you have. So, yeah. If her
Francine L Shaw: and Ben, you know, I would have felt differently because maybe they didn't know. I believe she knew. I believe they knew.
Matthew Regusci: Things happen all the time, but doing a corrective action on the spot is great.
Oh my gosh, you know what? That's great. Let me go put some caution tape on there or, oh no, you know what? We shut the water off because it was overflowing and we forgot to close that bathroom down. Let me go do that now or something. If that had happened, I totally agree with you.
Francine L Shaw: Thank you for letting me know.
My God, I spent 25 years in a restaurant. Things happen.
Matthew Regusci: Totally. Okay. So, I agree and food safety culture is going to continue being the thing. I think that the food safety culture is going to evolve and it's going to, Matt looking at crystal ball here, so I could be totally wrong. I foresee something around food safety culture overtaking a GFSI audit within the next 10 to 20 years.
That a global food safety audit or restaurant check like inspection or something like that is going to be part of a much larger expectation of food safety culture, not all encompassing of a food safety culture. Cause you and I both know that they're a good check, but they're not an overall great expectation of what the culture is of that company.
Francine L Shaw: They're a tool and they're only as effective as they're used.
Matthew Regusci: A tool only as effective as they're used and only as effective at this person performing the task of the tool. Wow. There's that. Yeah. There's a lot of tools out there that are auditors. There are a lot of amazing auditors that audit as a tool.
Francine L Shaw: Well, if
Matthew Regusci: we weren't blacklisted, we are now. Having 400 subcontractors across multiple continents. If you are an auditor out there, you've had a conversation with me probably about the same exact thing. I may have hired you, promoted you, or fired you in the past. Oh gosh, but the problem is there's not enough auditors.
And the expectations keep getting higher for auditors. And so the basket gets lower and lower and some of these bad auditors just keep moving through and inspectors just keep moving through different companies. And it's like a bad rash. You just can't get rid of it. It's ridiculous.
Francine L Shaw: And it's a hard job.
It's a
Matthew Regusci: terrible job.
Francine L Shaw: So kudos to those that are out there and doing it. Well, best
Matthew Regusci: auditors, they're worth their weight in gold. Oh my gosh. They're the best I love. And I have some great relationships with amazing auditors. And the fact that they can do their job day in and day out, because nobody wakes.
Let me rephrase that. There are companies that love their auditors and love getting audits. Those companies are few and far in between. The vast majority of the companies are crap. I have a food safety audit today. They're not waking up going. Yay. And so those auditors have to walk in knowing that there are a whole lot of companies that don't want them there.
I was a health inspector. I get it. So it's not a job where if you enjoy being liked, if you want to be liked all the time by everybody, auditing is not a job for you because what will end up happening is that you'll just pencil with the auditor just to be audit, just to be liked. And there's a lot of auditors out there with standard deviation curves of like zero.
Everything is 100 percent and although my company tells me I can't give 100 percent because I've given too many of them. So I have to find something here. So tell me what it is you want me to find and I'll mark it down on here so you can have an easy corrective action. Like literally I've had those conversations with auditors where I'm like, dude, you're done.
This is what you expect your job to be like. No, it's not good.
Francine L Shaw: How does anybody get a 100%? Is it possible?
Matthew Regusci: Yeah, it is. It is. It's for not really in a facility. It's really hard for a facility to ever get a 100%, but for farms, if you're like a Primus GFS audit or some sort of audit where everything is prescriptive and everything goes really well on the farm, yeah, you could.
Francine L Shaw: I'm thinking facility. I was thinking facility.
Matthew Regusci: Yeah, it's, yeah, something's always, something, even small things get missed all the time, let alone big things. Yeah, in a facility.
Francine L Shaw: Okay, so we need to wrap this up and talk about Jim Miller sent us that picture. Was that Jim Miller? I think so. Yeah. What picture?
I'm sorry. The popsicle. Oh, yeah. Wasn't that Jim Miller?
Matthew Regusci: Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're, I think you're right. I think it was Jim Miller. And he literally posted us in there wanting our comments, which is funny. And yeah, I love, I really liked you. He's, first off, what's his company again? I can't ever pronounce his name.
Francine L Shaw: Saldesha? Is that how you say it?
Matthew Regusci: Saldesha?
Francine L Shaw: Is that how, I don't, I'm sorry. If we're, we're
Matthew Regusci: going to have to interview him so he can tell us what is, yeah. It's like Jim Miller, the easiest name to say. And the company's name is like the hardest thing to say. Great, great, great guy. And he always posts us on things and, and ask for our comments.
Yeah. So there was a popsicle with this huge screw bolt, big bolt at the very tip of this popsicle. And then he was like, Oh, I want to hear what Francine and Matt have to say about this. And this guy like cuts this bolt out of this big popsicle, melts the tip off that has the bolt in it, shows the bolt.
And I think I posted something like, too bad jawbreaker is already trademarked because this is exactly how to describe
Francine L Shaw: this. Can you imagine biting into that? Good god. I might, I said my teeth hurt looking at it. I can't even imagine just, if you don't see it and just, so much went wrong with how that got into that popsicle.
Like,
Matthew Regusci: yeah, that was, yeah. Well, first off, does that popsicle, obviously, I mean, there's companies like that are supposed to have metal detectors. So either they don't have a metal detector, which would be. Or their metal detector was not working because somehow that definitely got through, right? There's no way that could have just,
Francine L Shaw: when I first saw it in the Popsicle, I thought that looks like a retainer.
How did that get in
Matthew Regusci: there? I know. I thought it was a bug.
Francine L Shaw: I thought it was a retainer because
Matthew Regusci: that would make more sense. Like a bug would have made more sense cause it wouldn't have been tracked by a metal detector.
Francine L Shaw: Yeah, I thought it was a retainer. Holy crap, that's a big screw.
Matthew Regusci: Your, that last sentence could have been taken out of context in so many ways.
Yeah, that's, uh, so I was wondering the same thing. How the hell did that make it through? Okay, well on that note, and, and everybody has to go see the, and we'll go ahead. What were you gonna say? Something else?
Francine L Shaw: Food safety culture. The popsicle. Ha, yes. Side note. Anyway.
Matthew Regusci: Yeah, side note. Okay, cool. All right, well on that note, don't eat poop.