Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast

DEP E151
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Matt Regusci: [00:00:00] When I was a kid was when the food pyramid came out. Okay. So in 1992 I was in eighth grade. I know, Francine. I know.

Francine L Shaw: Now. When I was a kid, we just ate what the hell we wanted to and didn't worry about it.

Matt Regusci: You probably healthier. So I remember liking health class and stuff like that, looking at this food pyramid and going like, sweet, like bread, cereal, rice.

Pasta growing up. Italian pasta, like I'm supposed to have six to 11 servings. This is the bottom of the food pyramid.

intro: Everybody's gotta eat and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans, Francine l Shaw and Matt Regusci for a [00:01:00] deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule. Don't. Eat poop. Don't eat poop.

Matt Regusci: Hello? Hello, Francine.

Francine L Shaw: Hey, Matt. It's been a while.

Matt Regusci: It has been a while. Yes. We took a little break during the holidays.

Francine L Shaw: We did.

Matt Regusci: That was fun.

Francine L Shaw: It was. It was. So I already have family members that have been asking how you made out at TSA with all your children.

Matt Regusci: That's funny that your family members ask you about that. So you know what? Really? Wow. So I thought, so my wife got all those bags. The, for context, this is the first time we were listening to the show. We had an episode where we're talking about the holidays and we were flying to South Carolina for Christmas and we flew the week before Christmas, and then we flew back on [00:02:00] Christmas Day and.

I was super worried about TSA, 'cause we had a bunch of special needs kids, 15 of us with bags, and I thought we were checking bags. We did not check bags. The bags that my wife got for everybody actually could go up into the, could be carried over the plane. So that was a lot less stress. I just have to worry about that.

Francine L Shaw: Go, Tracy.

Matt Regusci: I know. I was really impressed.

Francine L Shaw: What a woman.

Matt Regusci: And then my wife is a planner, so she had... Thank God... planned out. Yes, 100%. Thank God.

Francine L Shaw: I've never met her. Not face to face.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Yeah. Talk to her on the phone. Lots of text message threads that are particularly the one where you told Tim and I told Tracy that we're gonna have them on the show.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah.

Matt Regusci: For the last decade I have been like, oh, listen, we will drive anywhere. We're not flying with everybody like I fly all the time. I'm, [00:03:00] it's super stressful for me flying. I just know, okay, if something goes wrong, it's gonna go wrong. I'll figure it out. But with 15 people trying to get them on a separate flight to destination or to home, that would've been chaotic, particularly with four of the kiddos that we have, have special needs.

So. Like one's nearly blind, one's a dwarf, one has autism, one has oxygen and a feeding tube. So like how do you split that up amongst the adults that we had. But my wife like, you know, Matt, just pray everything's gonna be fine. Through TSA, she was like, okay, Matt, you and a whole bunch of the, my adult kids and stuff like that.

Are gonna take the rest of the kiddos through one line. And Tracy, my mother-in-law and my oldest daughter, took the other two kiddos that have like medical equipment and stuff through another line. And so I didn't have [00:04:00] to worry about all that stuff. I just didn't worry about the other ones.

Oh my gosh. It was genius. We got through really well and nothing, no, none of the flights were delayed or messed up or anything like that, which is crazy. So, yeah, and the trip was great.

Francine L Shaw: Tracy's like, Matt, you go ahead and go first. I'm more worried about you than the special needs children.

Matt Regusci: You go first, 100%. That's exactly correct.

Francine L Shaw: Let us take care of the rest of this. We've got it under control.

Matt Regusci: Yes, yes. That's exactly what happens. I am

Francine L Shaw: not you. You're cost me more stress than it's happening here right now.

Matt Regusci: Yes, yes. It's so funny. I could see you and I being similar on this. The whole world could fall apart, right? In business, in like kids go to the hospital, whatever.

You just do what you need to do. I just, whatever, let's just go. So I'm [00:05:00] gonna like prop my family up. When everything feels like chaos. I am perfectly fine living in chaos. Absolutely fine. Mm-hmm. But things like PSA with my family. I just, I know going into, because I can see all the potential problems and I have zero control over those problems.

That's the type of stuff that drives me crazy. And that's the type of stuff that gives me anxiety. And my wife and my kids know that. And they're like, okay, we will make this as easy as possible for dad. And it was nice.

Francine L Shaw: For some reason, I function much better during the, the stress and the chaos part of it.

Than I do when it's all over. I don't know if that comes from the industry that we work and or our, the A DHD part of our personalities. Probably. It has something to do with it.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: I, yeah, I don't know.

Matt Regusci: Both of us, right? We've dealt with outbreaks [00:06:00] and stuff like that with clients and zero problem.

Francine L Shaw: Right? Seems to be most organized.

So fun fact, I've worked from home most of this week 'cause I had a lot of things going on that I needed to take care of. And God, this is almost embarrassing. I worked from home all but Monday of this week. Didn't have to go anywhere. Got a lot of things accomplished. Went to leave for work this morning, couldn't find my keys.

I've not gone anywhere this week except since Monday.

Matt Regusci: This is like an epidemiology survey. What did you eat five days ago? And you're like, where? What did I do with my keys five days ago?

Francine L Shaw: Like, couldn't find my house, the two different, couldn't find my house keys, couldn't find my car keys. I'm on the phone with Melissa, like, can't find my keys anywhere.

We're like, okay, so retrace your steps.

Matt Regusci: Over the last five days.

Francine L Shaw: I'm like, look, I haven't been anywhere since I got home on [00:07:00] Monday. I have no idea. They're not in the clothes I was wearing on Monday. They're not in my coat pocket. They're not in my purse. Now this man's been with me for a long time. He just laughs.

He just laughs. He is. So I saw a new purse. Did you put 'em in the new purse by any chance? 'cause you were gonna change purses like, no, there's nothing in the new purse. I haven't changed purses yet. I still have not found these keys. I don't know where they're at. No idea. He's like, there's a new. No, he is like, there's a new car key out in the basket on top of the freezer.

If you wanna take my truck, take my truck. But there's a new car key for your car out there. And of course he had there, there was another house key that was in the house. But yeah, I no idea. I dunno where they're at.

Matt Regusci: Were you freaking out? Like, when I, when things like that, that, that's the other thing that I freak out about.

And when I say freak out, like it's not like. When I grew up, little tiny things like that, my mom would go absolutely [00:08:00] crazy and beat all of her kids. Not like freak out like that, but like freak out. Like why can't anybody put their shoes where they're supposed to be? Like, what's going on? Or why can't anybody take the keys out?

So we have a place where, 'cause my house is like a used car lot. I have 1, 2, 3, 4 kids that drive, that live in my house. My in-laws have a car. My wife and I have a car, a big van to drive people in a car. So that's a lot of cars. Like in our parking lot. That's a lot of cars. So I'm always like.

Francine L Shaw: In our parking lot, not our driveway. In our parking lot.

Matt Regusci: Yeah, sorry. In my driveway. Yeah, in my parking lot slash driveway. And we, oh my gosh. If a car gets out of whack too. In my driveway. There's shuffling apart a congestion. Yeah. And then you have to like have three people moving cars around in order to get the cars in the right spot. It's crazy.

But like we, I have a place where we hang all the keys because at any point in [00:09:00] time I might have to move a car. Right. That's not my car. And my cars are better than my kids' cars. I'm not one of those that goes out and buys their kid a Ferrari as the first vehicle or whatever. It's like, but Dad, this has a hundred thousand miles on it.

Yep. When you crash this car or somebody hits you or something like that, I'm won't cry too bad that this thing is gone. So then they're gonna go drive on a date or what? Whatever. They're gonna want my car. So I, I hang the, the keys all, we hang 'em all up on this thing. Well, you gotta imagine that many drivers and somebody doesn't put the key on the thing.

And I'm like, what the heck guys? We need to be putting the keys here and then it'll be me. It'll be me. I'll be the one that'll be like, why didn't somebody put my key on there? And it's like, I, you were the last one to drive. And I'm like, ah, damn. It's in my pocket in, in one of my jeans. Oh man, I So holiday was good.

Holiday was good. I, yeah, I got [00:10:00] rest. You're like me. Probably still worked every single day on something, but a lot less than I normally do. So got less to spend a lot more time with kiddos and it was fun.

Francine L Shaw: Weren't you impressed that I remembered the day you were flying home?

Matt Regusci: Yes. You were like, you got stories for me. Francine needs the tea. Francine needs the tea.

You and I are the same way in this too. Like we don't want to be in anybody's problems, but man, is it fun to listen to the stories like one time. That's it. We all please don't rehash it over and over again. Like my family will rehash stories of things that people did wrong to them for 20, 30 years ago and I'm like, come on, get over it.

But the first time, oh, it's fun to listen to those stories. It's hilarious. And then we just make fun of it forever. Then we have, we'll create like a one-liner joke. From that one story and then that just becomes the one-liner for everything.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah. [00:11:00] Well, people probably actually hear something.

Matt Regusci: Yes.

Francine L Shaw: Personal garbage.

Matt Regusci: Yes. And we have a new food pyramid.

Francine L Shaw: We do.

Matt Regusci: We have a new food pyramid.

Francine L Shaw: You know what I'm disappointed about? I do not see chocolate on this food pyramid anywhere. Not even dark chocolate. Like what? What, where are we?

Matt Regusci: Okay, let's go through the evolution of food pyramid, because when I was a kid, sorry man, I'm still like sneezing and from having COVID a while ago, man, I co, I've had COVID three times this last time, knocked me out and I'm still like sniffing and all that stuff.

It's crazy. When I was a kid was when the food pyramid came out. Okay. So in 1992 I was in eighth grade. I know, Francine. I know.

Francine L Shaw: No, when I was a kid, we just ate what the hell we wanted to and didn't worry about it.

Matt Regusci: You were probably healthier. So [00:12:00] I remember like in health class and stuff like that, looking at this food pyramid and going like, sweet, like bread, cereal, rice, pasta, growing up Italian, pasta, like I was supposed to have six to 11 servings. This is the bottom of the food pyramid. This is like the bottom of the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, which I learned much later on. This is great. And then I was like, okay, vegetables are next. Three to five servings. Fruit, two to four servings. This is okay. The vegetable side of things, eh?

But the fruit side, I like fruit. And then up is the meat. Two to three servings of meat, two to three servings of milk and cheese. Great. Like I love meat and cheese. Then all the other stuff, fats, oils, sweets, there's your chocolate. Francine is at the very top of the pyramid, right?

This is the thing that everybody knew from 1992 to 2005, which was fantastic for the food industry, right? Like just [00:13:00] pump out a ton of grain. We, we are like the grain capital of the world. Put it into anything possible, any type of manufactured goods. And food manufacturing grew significantly because of this. Right. CPG brands just went crazy with all different types of products and then that was great. So 1992 to 2005, that was the food pyramid. And I think still a lot of people still think this is the food pyramid today.

What are your thoughts on the old food pyramid, Francine?

Francine L Shaw: Um, I think that people are still eating a lot of bread.

Matt Regusci: Yes.

Francine L Shaw: Sorry, I'm still.

Matt Regusci: Yes. People are still eating a lot of bread. A lot.

Do you think that the food pyramid from 1992, that original food pyramid, 1992 to to 2005, do you think that helped increase obesity in the United States?

Francine L Shaw: Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

I see things like this all the time. So if you [00:14:00] go back and you look at images of people in like, say the, the seventies, just group pictures from like the beach? Yeah. Or from people in the street. There weren't, wasn't a lot of obesity during that time. There just wasn't. When you look at those images a hundred percent, I think that this contributed to that a hundred percent.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. I agree with you. That's what health advisors say today, right? That, that.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah. Again, not just obesity, but everything that comes along with the obesity.

Matt Regusci: Right. Diabetes, heart disease, strokes, cancer, everything. Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Right.

Matt Regusci: It all increased significantly from that time on.

You are right. Okay. So I grew up in, I was in school eighties.

I grew up eighties and nineties. And I remember when I played football, my nickname in football was Chunk. Okay. And I was the captain of the defensive team. I was, uh, a lineman, like a nose guard or whatever, but [00:15:00] I was considered fat back then. Like my nickname was Chunk. It was used in, it was used in a positive way 'cause I like had, I don't know, three or four sacks a game like for many years.

But I was a big boy, but I wasn't like obese like kids are today. But I was considered fat and I'm like, I don't know what you call big boned. Even in my skinniest, I'm just built differently. But growing up in the eighties and nineties, just being a little bit overweight. Well, like I was teased for being overweight. Until I beat them up and then they stopped teasing me. But the, but, but I was considered overweight. I'm looking at kids now and I'm like, oh yeah, no, I was not overweight compared to

Francine L Shaw: Right.

Matt Regusci: A lot of the kids now. Yeah. Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah.

Matt Regusci: Very, very different.

Francine L Shaw: Well, and after the grain came, uh, a lot of processed foods, which were gonna get into. That certainly [00:16:00] even added more to

Matt Regusci: Yes.

Francine L Shaw: The obesity, for many reasons, the convenience, the health aspect.

Matt Regusci: Convenience is huge. Convenience is huge.

Francine L Shaw: A hundred percent. It's convenience is just a massive factor for many reasons, and I'm not being critical by any means. It's easy. People are busy. It's tough when you've got parents that are working.

You've got, you're running from one sport to another sport or whatever the case may be. You're crushed for time. There just, there's a whole lot of factors that play into that.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Who has time? When you're working 40 or more hours a week, you've got kids that are busy. You're busy to be home cooking a pot roast and feeding and feeding it to your family while you've got all this going on, that it just isn't time for all of that for a lot of families.[00:17:00]

Matt Regusci: No. No.

Francine L Shaw: Not to mention that a pot roast drink. Wow. $50. I can't imagine having to shop for meat right now. I can't even imagine. But I.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: We've talked about this before. I don't buy meat at the grocery store. Anyway, we're off topic. Let's get back to the pyramid.

Matt Regusci: Okay. So then in 2005 to 2011, they tried to change the pyramid to MyPyramid: Steps to a Healthy You, a healthier you. That's is ridiculous. This pyramid thing, and we're gonna put a link to this in the notes below, but the, that has the images of this so you can see it. The first pyramid was way easier to read. This thing is like this stick guy, the new tech stick guy walking upstairs.

Then it makes [00:18:00] no sense because the pyramid colors are going up. Instead of being blocked out like the old pyramid, they're going up at an angle, like at a diamond angle, up the peak of the pyramid, and then it has grains, vegetables, fruits, milk, meats, and you don't really see what percentages you're supposed to eat of these things.

It like how, yeah. I'm like, okay.

Francine L Shaw: Well each, you don't see the percentages, but I remember this caricature of humans was all the rage. But what, I don't remember this pyramid and I don't, is it just a mental block? I don't really.

Matt Regusci: No.

Francine L Shaw: I don't remember this car.

Matt Regusci: Frank Yiannas. Yeah. Thank you Frank Yiannas for posting this in the, in your LinkedIn by the way, so we can see the evolution of the food pyramid 'cause I don't remember at all. I don't remember anything other than the old food pyramid. You and I have both worked in the food industry the whole entire time.

Francine L Shaw: I remember the 92 to 2005 and 2011 to 26 that [00:19:00] I don't remember this, 2005 to 2011 at all.

Matt Regusci: No. And this pyramid from this 2005 to 2011 probably had, I don't know, 20, 30 government workers together for three years putting together this thing that made absolutely no sense and nobody read.

It definitely looks like a pyramid designed by committee. I, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: It was a new software program.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah. Look guys, we need to throw something together quickly. Let's just do this.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

So the 2011 to 2026 food pyramid I have, it's not a food pyramid, it's a plate. I have seen this one before, but it never stuck in my mind like the old food pyramid did.

It's just a plate and it has grains equaling about a little bit more than a quarter, vegetables equaling a little bit more than a quarter. [00:20:00] Fruits equaling a little less than a quarter. Proteins equaling a little less than a quarter, and a dairy, a cup on the side that has dairy, which.

Francine L Shaw: Dessert? That's what it looks like.

Dairy's the dessert.

Matt Regusci: Ice cream on the side. Look at the government saying, I can have dairy. Oh yeah.

Francine L Shaw: I guess that could be, I went for dessert. That could be a cup of milk.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: It looks like for those of you that have never seen it, it reminds you of one of those place that toddlers get when they first start eating out of dishes.

You know those little bowls with the separate Separate.

Matt Regusci: Exactly. Exactly what that looks like.

Francine L Shaw: I'm on a roll today.

Matt Regusci: Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what that looks like. Okay. And maybe the reason why I didn't, wasn't really. Didn't really care about this. I think there's a couple reasons. One is I'd already been trained in the food pyramid as a kid, and I would take like a health class every single year In middle school and high school or, yeah.

'cause [00:21:00] PE, there's always a segment in PE and I did sports all through high school and middle school. There was always a segment where they went through health. Right. You had a module or whatever. And every single time I saw the food pyramid, so that was always ingrained in my head. Then by the time I was a young adult with kids and really struggling with weight, which I've struggled with for my whole life, I was like, this makes zero sense.

Even if I eat the way the food pyramid looks like, I gain weight. So. I started going on the, like the Atkins and then the keto, and so my plate didn't look at all like this. My plate was a lot of proteins, a lot of vegetables and nothing else. I wasn't eating grains like you wanna. I might as well just tap that loaf of bread to my stomach and walk around with it, because if I eat carbs, it goes straight to my stomach.

Well, [00:22:00] at the same time as well, that during this period I was drinking a lot of calories in grains and fruits and that type of stuff, so that wasn't helping with my weight either. But yeah, I would joke with my friends that my favorite bread is the liquid kind. 'cause I drank a lot of beer.

Francine L Shaw: I used to tell people when I worked in the restaurant, all I had to do was walk past the ice cream display and I gained weight.

Matt Regusci: You gained weight? Francine.

Francine L Shaw: There was a time where I weighed much more than I weigh now, but yes, I used to say all I have to do is walk past the ice cream display and I, I'd gain weight. Yeah.

Matt Regusci: Really? I, okay, so that was before I met you, because every single time I've seen you over the last decade.

Francine L Shaw: Oh, it was a long time ago. It was a long time ago.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Long time ago.

Matt Regusci: So this 2011 to 2026 is visually easier to read than the 2005 to 2011, 2005, 2011. Might as well never [00:23:00] existed. It makes zero sense. But the 2011 to 2000 to 2026. Okay. This makes more sense.

Francine L Shaw: 5 to 11 looks like they just took the colors of the rainbow, tossed them together in a mountain, mountainous type setting and threw a bunch of food at the bottom of it.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah. I mean, it's, even though the clouds behind it, it's, I don't know.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Guy's walking to heaven. I don't know what that is. I, yeah.

Matt Regusci: Okay, so now 2026, we have a new food pyramid.

Francine L Shaw: We do.

Matt Regusci: It's inverse.

Francine L Shaw: Inverted.

Matt Regusci: It's inverse, and when I say inverse, it's an upside down pyramid, which okay, fine, whatever. I guess we're in the era now of everything that was okay.

Is no longer, okay, so of course this is going to get, because this came from RFK Jr. and Trump's administration, I'm sure that this is gonna get beat to hell just [00:24:00] because it's 50% can't agree on anything the other 50% does in today's world, which is very sad and disturbing. But other than that, the food pyramid, it doesn't make sense, Francine.

I'm looking at it and I'm like, it makes sense in terms of like how I eat. It, like looking at that, I'm like, okay, this is how I eat. Right? The majority is protein, dairy, and healthy fats. Vegetables and fruits, and then as it goes down the line is like whole grains at the very bottom, so it's completely flipped the old pyramid, like 100% flipped it. Whole grains are at the very tip. So Francine, there's no chocolate on here.

Francine L Shaw: I'm devastated. They stop making chocolate. I'm done.

Matt Regusci: They don't have sweets on there. Okay, so it's interesting 'cause the old pyramid is fats, oils, sweets. At the [00:25:00] top, on the new pyramid in 2026, it says protein, dairy, and healthy fats. The way they inverse this thing is so hard to describe it. It's at the bottom in terms of this is what you're supposed to eat, you know, at the bottom of the pyramid.

But because it's inverse, it's hard to explain this. At the top of the pyramid now is whole grains.

Francine L Shaw: So, eating a lot of bread isn't good. Right. Would you agree with that? Yes. Eating a lot of bread isn't great for anybody.

Matt Regusci: Eating a lot of bread is not good. Eating a lot of processed foods, like a lot of.

When I say processed foods too, this is the hard thing. So fish, meat, et cetera, dairy, all that is processed. It's just minimally processed fruits and vegetables. If you're getting it frozen, if you're getting in a can, it's processed. It's just minimally processed. Right. The cereals and stuff, [00:26:00] depending on the cereal, right? 'cause cereals, a group of products is either really processed or minimally processed.

So you have to have the right definitions of things. I think whole grain bread is not bad, but like white bread.

Francine L Shaw: How and how much are you eating?

Matt Regusci: Me, I don't eat much bread at all.

Francine L Shaw: Not you, but in general, how much is a person eating? Because if you have two pieces of toast for breakfast, you have a sandwich for lunch, and then you eat bread with dinner, you're up to maybe six pieces of bread a day.

That's a lot of bread.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah. And some of 'em might say, well, I don't eat a lot of bread. Well, you just did. If that's your diet, and they don't realize that they're eating that much bread. That is a lot of bread.

Matt Regusci: If you eat cereal. If you eat pasta. if you eat snack bars, that type of stuff. That's all basically bread. Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: So that can add up real quickly without individuals realizing how quickly that adds up. Which.

Matt Regusci: Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Unless you write down [00:27:00] everything you eat, you just don't realize how much of that stuff you're eating. Protein and healthy fats at the top. How much red meat are we eat?

Matt Regusci: I can eat a lot of red meat. I love well meat.

Francine L Shaw: I love red meat.

Matt Regusci: I love meat. I don't think there's a meat out there that I will not eat. You can hand me a can of sardines. I'll eat the can of sardines.

Francine L Shaw: No, I don't. I know.

Matt Regusci: Protein is like my body, like craves protein. I love all types of vegetables too. It's unfortunate. I, there's very little things I do not like.

Raw tomatoes. Not a fan. It's something, I don't know what the acidic pineapple love pineapple juice. I, it's the texture of the pineapple.

Francine L Shaw: So do I.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. Everything else I'll eat.

Francine L Shaw: So whole milk instead of skim milk or 2% milk.

Matt Regusci: Yep. I do that. We have whole milk in our house. We do not have skim milk or 2% milk. Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: So we're tossing out a lot of things that [00:28:00] we've been doing for a number of years.

Matt Regusci: A long time.

Whole industries wrapped around this.

Francine L Shaw: And I don't see it on here. I don't see it on here, but I was, but yesterday I was watching something or listening to something that they were talking about alcohol. They were saying alcohol is okay, but there was no, no recommendation as to how much alcohol or no conversation about the risks associated with alcohol.

Matt Regusci: So the wine industry, like back this? Yeah. So this is where.

Okay. This new pyramid I don't disagree with. I do not disagree with this new pyramid. It's basically my diet. What I do disagree with is it doesn't make it easy for someone to look at this and go, oh, this is how I am supposed to eat. There's nothing really easy about it.

If your whole [00:29:00] entire life, if you're don't care about what you put in your body and and what you're eating. You're not be look at this and say, Hey, I need to lose weight and look at this and really it's going to make sense. Yeah. I wish it was the old pyramid or the new 2011 to 2026 plate. Something simpler.

Francine L Shaw: It's a little bit like the 2005 to 2011 image really. Only they've, they've spread that food out. It's a little bit like that. What would be nice is if they had combined this picture with the 2011 to 2026 and portioned these foods on top of the protein, on top of the grains, on top of the fruit and on top of the vegetables, that would've been nice.

That would've been a much better image. Yes. Take something similar to this plate if they didn't like the plate, but an image like that put the [00:30:00] dairy on top of the dairy and put the protein on top of the protein and the ve, it's still real food, but we've just portioned it out on a real plate. Yes, something people can relate to. Makes it relatable.

Matt Regusci: I agree with you that would've made this way better. And then also, the definition of healthy fats. Again, unless you are really in the food industry and you understand what the differences between healthy fats and non-healthy fats are. You're gonna be very confused on what that is.

Francine L Shaw: They're not talking about chewing that beef fat.

Matt Regusci: Actually beef fat is a healthy fat. Tallow is a healthier fat now.

Francine L Shaw: Well, how much are you gonna chew on after you cook it? They're not talking about eating steak fat all the time.

Matt Regusci: No. Life hack: Anybody who cooks brisket out there knows that you end up with a lot of off the brisket. So I cut my flat side and my point side, I take them off from each other.

People who are [00:31:00] diehard brisket smokers that smoke both the point and the flat together, you're probably looking at me like I'm crazy. But my family, I mean, from Kansas City, my wife's family loves burnt ends. So I cut the point off, turn that into burnt ends. So I take the flat and turn it basically like sandwich makings for later on.

But with that I end up with a, I take a huge brisket and I end up with a, like a small foil pan of fat, like just tons and tons of the fat cutoff. While I'm smoking my brisket, I throw the, that tin of the aluminum foil pan of fat strips off, and I smoke it the whole entire time the brisket is being cooked.

I smoke that and so it all, the fat then drains out of the fibers. Holding the fat to the cow or whatever. And so then you just have liquid beef. Not really tallow 'cause it's not coming off of the [00:32:00] organs, but liquid beef fat. And I strain it really well. Put it in a jar. I think you've seen that. It's like white, I think I showed you a picture one time of it.

It comes out and it just, it's shelf stable in a mason jar. And when I'm cooking vegetables or whatever, it ends up like a. It ends up becoming, quote unquote a healthy oil that ends up tasting amazing. It adds a smoky flavor to the vegetables. And yeah, totally disgusts my wife, like she thinks it's the most disgusting thing that I do this, but she likes the flavor of it. So she doesn't complain. Well, she doesn't complain as much 'cause it is a jar of fat sitting on one of her counters, which she complains about. But other than that, yeah.

So I agree with you, Francine. If we had taken this, these vegetables in healthy fats and blah, blah, blah, stuck it onto the plate, that would've [00:33:00] been much better.

Yeah. Do you know what?

The other thing too is like the attack on seed oils and the attack on, I'm not saying this is wrong, I'm just saying it's being attacked. Seed oils are being attacked, so that's considered like an unhealthy oil or fat. Corn syrup is being attacked and that's been attacked for a while.

Our whole entire, there are subsidies that are given to farmers to create these fats, like from our government. So it's so funny that we have.

Francine L Shaw: Right.

Matt Regusci: A food pyramid from our government saying a lot of messaging, saying not to eat that stuff. And on the flip side, we have subsidies that are like, grow the crap out of it and let's make as much of this as possible.

It's a fascinating disconnect.

Francine L Shaw: So is that butter? In the center of this?

Matt Regusci: Yes, between the avocado and the oatmeal. That's butter. Okay, so here's the other thing too. When you're looking at this, you and I know that that's butter, but somebody else who doesn't [00:34:00] understand what healthy fats are, they're like, oh, cool.

I can still use my margarine. I have. Friends.

Francine L Shaw: Good point.

Matt Regusci: That have been having margarine forever and they will not eat anything but margarine no matter how much you tell them. No. Butter is actually way better for you than margarine. It's just a lot of confusing things on it. Yeah.

Francine L Shaw: Yogurt it looks like. Is that?

Well, tuna made the cut. I guess that's tuna. Canna tuna. And it funny how we make assumptions.

Matt Regusci: Yes, it is a can of tuna, I have it like blown up.

Okay. Well. We have a new food pyramid for, I don't know, the next 15 years. This seems to be how long these things last. Well, except for the absolutely terrible one.

Francine L Shaw: Six. That was good for six years. So question, is this gonna change the way you eat?

Matt Regusci: No. I basically eat like this already.

Francine L Shaw: Is it gonna change the way any American eats do you think?

Matt Regusci: No. It'll [00:35:00] validate people like me that eat like this already, but I don't think it's gonna change with how people eat. If it was easier, if it was the way you'd said to do it, Francine, if it was on a plate, it would make it easier for a people that that's their business is like nutritionists to this is what's gonna happen is a nutritionist is gonna do exactly what you said.

They're gonna take this food pyramid thing. They're gonna put it on what a plate looks like and they're gonna hand that off to their, their clients and be like, eat this, not this. But they're not gonna take this food pyramid thing and hand it off to anybody and go like, doesn't this make sense? 'cause it really doesn't.

This inverse pyramid thing does not make sense.

Francine L Shaw: It won't affect the way I shop. There are certain aisle in the grocery store. I just typically avoid unless I'm looking for something specific. If we're having a cookout or I don't typically buy chips. If Tim wants chips, he goes to the store and gets them, unless he asks me to get them.

I don't just, I just don't normally buy them. Not [00:36:00] for any particular reason. It's just not something I never have. You know what I mean? I've just never, I just never have. I live in a very boring household.

Matt Regusci: Yeah. But yeah, to your point, Francine, no, this is not gonna change the way I eat 'cause I kind of already eat like this.

So are you. I don't think anybody who is obese is going to look at this and go, oh, I was wrong. I'm now going to eat like this. I don't think that's gonna happen either, but I do think that people who are trying to lose weight, this is exactly what I was told to do. My eating habits many years ago. It's more validating for me, but yeah.

Uh, we beat this inverse, well, we beat every pyramid to death, including the inverse one man is not today.

Francine L Shaw: The people that made the plate are gonna be really happy. If they listen.

Matt Regusci: And the original pyramid that was during it makes the original pyramid. The way it laid out was laid out. It [00:37:00] was like, wow, this actually makes sense.

Like you can read it. It makes absolute sense.

Francine L Shaw: And the other one was, I think during Rex's tenure.

Matt Regusci: Well, it was, but it is, I don't think he, he didn't create it.

Francine L Shaw: But not beginning of it. Not 2011? No, no,

Matt Regusci: no, no.

Francine L Shaw: He wasn't, no, he wasn't there then. So. Okay.

Matt Regusci: Yeah, he was like in the middle. He was in the middle of that.

Francine L Shaw: Yeah.

Matt Regusci: So it was already out fine. Well, on that note, don't eat poop.